[TriLUG] Promotions for Installfests

[Thunder Bear]

On Thu, 2002-05-16 at 02:09, al johson wrote:
> Other topics which cause newbie Linux users heartburn??
> 
> I can name quite a few:
> 1. Modem installations. My son (magna cum laude at Princeton in computer
> science!!) who can do just about anything in Linux did not know how to
> install a modem in his dad's Linux machine. And it was an ISA modem that was
> not a Winmodem!! Eventually it got installed but not until after a lot of
> reading, heartburn and online advice. Even though I've done it sucessfully
> once, I don't think I could do it again.

This is actually what kept me on Windows for awhile.  Modem support is
so badly implemented in Linux (mostly just pretty faces duct taped onto
the same old crusty UNIX daemons).  Now that I've got a cable modem, I'm
on Linux about 97% of the time.  After this year is done and I no longer
need Quickbooks, I will probably be up to 100% since my Quickbooks
replacement will need to run on Linux.

> 2. Installing software and the constant problem with dependencies. 

I'm becoming a big fan of Debian for solving this problem (at least as
much as they can from the OS side).  The second part of the problem is
getting application vendors/programmers to package .deb's.

I haven't played with urpmi or apt for rpm but they may fix the rest of
the problem since most Linux apps that are packaged at all are packaged
in rpm format.  One con to this still is that an RPM for Red Hat doesn't
necessarily work with Mandrake or other RPM based distros.

So yes, packaging and dependencies is a real problem.

> The
> biggest problem I see with a novice installing Linux is after getting the
> system up and running how do you install the OTHER programs especially when
> those other programs need software which aren't on your system because
> neither Red Hat nor Mandrake remembered to include them!! 

There isn't much they forgot.  In fact there is quite a bit that has no
place, IMHO, in the base install.  I was wondering why Red Hat 7.3 was
so much bigger to install than Red Hat 7.2 and found that it was
installing all kinds of foreign language support that I never really
needed (Je ne parlez pas francais.  No habla espanol.)  So another major
problem IMHO is removing stuff that you don't need.

> Where do you go to
> get that software and where do you put it on the system. (Also a topic not
> usually covered in the manuals--probably because they don't want to point
> out that needed programs were not included in your distribution--Grip
> needing Lame instantly comes to mind :-) And even if you do find out where
> the software you need is online, when you get there, you face the problem of
> WHICH file do you download??

Another big reason to use apt.

> 3. Installing your DVD drive so it will play DVD's. The software is now
> available and Decss is not needed now.

Haven't run into this challenge yet.  I think it would be a nice meeting
topic though since it is something more applicable to the home use of
Linux.  We have a lot of talks that are more applicable to programmers,
sysadmins, and hardcore geeks.  My brain hurts by the time the meeting
is over.  Talks on things like DVD under Linux might have broader appeal
and would make for a nice diversion from the hardcore geek topics.

> 4. Installing and especially using disk-burning software to create CD-R's
> and CD-RW's.

So far I've found this to be pretty easy, if you're not afraid of the
command line.  The hardest part to set up is the scsi->ide stuff in the
kernel but even that is pretty easy.  I briefly played with xcdroast but
went right back to the command line cdrecord.

> 5. Give me some time and I'll think of some others. In other words, the
> little things which the makers of your distribution forgot to include in the
> initial installation.

OpenOffice!

I'm experimenting a little on the side with other distros mostly to try
to improve the installfest experience.  I notice installations today
take much longer than they used to, even though the machines are faster
and the installers are improved.  Why?  Well part of the answer is that
Red Hat 6.2 was one CD, 7.2 was two, and 7.3 is three.  We love to
complain as a community about the bloat in Windows 2000/XP but that is
still just one CD.  I'll grant you that you don't get nearly as much on
a Windows 2000 install CD as you do on a Red Hat Linux install CD.

IMHO the installer needs to get back down to one CD.  Make it really
brutally easy for a user to add packages later, and put those on
package-only CD's.  You still have the same number of CD's but less of
the packages are installed right out of the box.  Just a thought to kick
around.

Some discussion of what apps to include on a home user box would be
valuable here to help guide future installfests.