[TriLUG] RR and pre-meeting subjects :

[Mike Helms]

Ben,

I worked for an ISP - a cable company, in fact, and know the stresses well.

I have never once complained about RR.  Imperfect as it may be, I accept
that this is relatively new technology doing things coaxial cable was never
originally designed to do.  Ergo, I smile and acknowledge that if the
connection goes down, it's probably just a good excuse for me to go read a
book while things get fixed.

BTW, I *did* work in front line tech support as part of my tenure with Shaw,
and I can say from experience that the vast, vast majority of people who
called in to bitch about a "terrible connection" didn't have the faintest
clue what they were talking about.  My favorite were the "Microsoft
engineers" and "Unix administrators" who didn't know what an IP address was.
Typical conversation went like this:

Mike: Thank you for choosing Shaw, this is Mike speaking.  How may I help
you this afternoon?

Idiot: Yeah, uh, my email has been down since yesterday afternoon, when will
you guys have this fixed?

Mike: Let me check, sir.  <pause>  Sir, I'm not showing any reported outages
on the mail server, and I'm able to connect to your mail server ...

Idiot: <interrupts me> Look, I haven't been able to do anything with my
email since yesterday, and I know it's not my systems.

Mike: Sir, let me do one quick check.  Can I confirm your address as 123
Anywhere St ... (we had call display on our phones, so by this point in the
conversation I had their entire account in front of me).

Idiot: Yeah, that's it.

Mike: <pause> Sir, I'm not getting a ping response from your computer ...

Idiot: <interrupts me again> Yeah, I'm running a firewall.

Mike: OK, let's try pinging the mail server from your end so we can figure
out if your network is even seeing our network.  You'll first need to click
on Start and Run ...

Idiot: <interrupts> Look, I'm a Microsoft Certified Turbocharged
Super-Intelligent Holy Blessed Engineer, I don't need step by step
directions.

Mike: OK, what are your stack settings?

Idiot: <long pause> Ummmm....

Mike: As I was saying.  Let's click on Start and Run.

Idiot: OK.

Mike: Type CMD and hit enter.

Idiot: OK.

Mike: Type PING mail.shawcable.com and hit enter, and let me know what it
says.

Idiot: <pause> Unknown Host.

Mike: Can you do anything with the Internet?  Can you surf or anything?

Idiot: No.

Mike: Well, sir, here's what I'm seeing from this end.  I get a perfect
response from your cable modem, and have even rebooted it from this end.
Signal levels are perfect, signal to noise ratio is perfect, so I don't
suspect this is an issue with the connection itself.  I have no reported
outages and I'm able to connect to your mail server no problem, so this
would appear to be something with your home network.

Idiot: <in a fit of rage> Look, asshole, I'm a Super Engineer and have been
networking computers for 50 years, and you can't tell me that my network is
failing.  I want to speak to your boss.  I do computers for a living!

Mike: Sir, my boss will be the first to tell you that I work with computers
for a living too.  I *am* telling you that it's your network.  Now, if you
want to unplug your network from the modem and plug one Windows box directly
into the cable modem, we can get the connection up and running on that one
machine to prove that it is not the connection.

Idiot: Yeah, and if that works, are you gonna send someone out to fix my
network?

Mike: No sir, we only support the connection to the first computer.  Any
networking beyond that is your responsibility.

Idiot: You know, for every hour that this connection is down, I lose $500
per ...

Mike: <interrupts> Sir, I'm sure you are familiar with the Acceptable Use
Policy that you were given when you signed up with the high speed internet
service, and you will remember that Shaw is not liable for any direct or
indirect losses incurred as a result of the service going down.  I will also
remind you that this is an entertainment level home service.  Now, if you
have a business - particularly one making as much money as your business is,
I should refer you to our our sister company, Big Pipe, that can provide T1
level service for a nominal fee of about $1500 per month.  Given that you're
making about $500 per hour, I would think that three hours worth of your
time for a business class connection would benefit your business
considerably.  Would you like me to have a representative from Big Pipe get
in contact with you?

Idiot: Um, no, I'll take another look at my network.  Do you think it could
be the Linksys router that I'm running?

Mike: It very well could be.  Like I said, I'm not getting a ping response
from this end, which is most likely the router in that case.  You might also
want to check the PC light on the front of your modem to make sure that the
modem and the router have a hardware connection.

Idiot: OK.  So there's nothing wrong with the mail server?

Mike: No, sir, I just logged in an it's showing me you have 55 messages
waiting.  <half of them are receipts from buying porn site subscriptions.
Snicker snicker>

Idiot: Uh, OK.  Bye.

Mike: Have a good afternoon, sir, and thank you for calling.

Cheers everyone,
-- Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Pitzer [mailto:uncleben at mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:56 PM
To: trilug at trilug.org
Subject: Re: [TriLUG] RR and pre-meeting subjects :


Andy,

Look, here's the deal.  Have you ever worked in an ISP environment?  The
fact is that no matter how well you set something up, people will find a
way to break it.  Have you ever had an ISP that worked flawlessly?  I
sure as hell haven't, and I've worked for almost every one I've had to
date.  Look, we're not imcompetent.  In fact, I'm right now working with
some of the most competent, dedicated, and highly skilled folks I've
ever worked with.  We make the best of what we're given, which to be
honest, is pretty good.  However, if someone out there wants to leave
their mail relay open, well, there's not alot we can do about it right
away.  Our problem with this mail thing has not been us.  It's been
uninformed users who either violate their AUP, or else fail to properly
configure their servers to prevent external abuse.  As an ISP, there's
little we can do about it except scramble to respond when it happens. 
There have been other mitigating factors as well, all outside of our
realm of control, either as engineers, or as a company.

I'm risking my ass here by putting this on a list.  I want you folks to
know, however, that I'm willing to be a resource to you so long as it
doesn't get abused.  I am not front line tech support.  If you can't get
help from them, and they won't escalate you despite repeated calls,
emails, etc., then I'd be willing to listen.  But I am afraid that I
take a little offense to being alluded to as being incompetent by
someone who refuses to ask the facts before ranting.  I take my job very
seriously, and take quite alot of pride in it. I think that I and all my
coworkers do a very good job.  Front line tech support may not be at
your level of computing expertise, but they do not take care of RR's
mail servers.  I do.  Andy, I appreciate your frustration, but people
are much more willing to help out and make things better when you don't
make ignorant, uninformed statments.

Now, that being said, all flames back in my direction for this outburst
will be henceforth killed in queue, and I will not be responding to
them.  If you have a legitimate question, or can make civil replies,
I'll be happy to talk with you.  You can also find me on #trilug on the
irc.openprojects.net network most weekdays.

Regards,
Ben Pitzer
 
On Wed, 2002-06-12 at 23:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Kevin - The Alchemist - Sonney wrote:
> 
> >Some quick notes :
> >- First up, before everyone gets their knickers into too big a twist,
> >I've just gotten word from a reliable source that the mail problems on
> >RR are pretty evil, but not their fault. Patience is required, and if
> >you ever meet a RR tech, buy him or her a tasty beverage.
> >  
> >
> After a year of regular problems, who cares WHAT the problem is?  I 
> don't care who's fault it is or
> what the reasons, their stuff doesn't work.  I don't give a large 
> rodant's posterior why or whose fault
> I pay some rediculous sum a month and they can't get it right.  Whether 
> its the little guy who needs
> permission to hug the server's fault or the fat cat sitting in the 
> window office who cares.
> 
> >- next up, I've not managed to get the donated airport configs cleared.
> >If someone would be so kind as to bring a OSX mac that can reconfigure
> >the beast, I'd greatly appreciate it. oh, Thanks again for the Airport
> >Roberto!
> >
> >- I'll have some really cool news at the meeting, and will forward it to
> >the list afterwords. But those of you at the meeting will get first dibs
> >at it *grin*
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
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