[TriLUG] C# and .NET

[Tanner Lovelace]

On Mon, 2002-07-01 at 15:41, Ed Hill wrote:

> Hi Tanner,
> 
> I agree with the *vast* majority of what you're saying.  I like Java
> almost solely because of WORA.

Write Once Run Anywhere can be very nice at times.  Actually, I
believe if it wasn't for that, Java would have died a long time ago.
But, to get that, you have to make tradeoffs.  And, unfortunately,
most people don't want any tradeoffs at all.  They want to have 
their cake and eat it too and it just isn't possible.  If more
people realized that, I think, things would be a lot more sedate. :-)
 
> I like the STL and templates.  I use them a *lot* in my C++.  Have you
> seen java-generics?  Supposedly, its going to be incorporated into the
> Java 1.5 spec...

The STL and templates are the best thing since sliced bread. :-)
BTW, if anyone here hasn't read Bjarne Stroustrup's paper about
teaching C++ versus teaching C, I highly recommend it.
(http://www.research.att.com/~bs/new_learning.pdf).

Ed, I have seen a version of Java generics from a few years
ago.  The one I saw compiled to standard java and then used
the normal java tools (compiler, jvm, etc..) from there.
I remember thinking it was a good step forward (gaining
true generic strong typing) and wondered why it wasn't in
the language to begin with.  I had heard it was going into
1.4, but I guess that got pushed back.  I think it's 
actually a bit ironic that, at least in one way, Java is
becoming more like C++. :-)

> YES!  Absolutely!  Control (that is, the software developers' and users'
> *loss* and MS's gain) is the most important aspect of .NET.

Unfortunately, I despair of anyone (besides those in the open source
camps) of ever actually grokking this point.  Even *after* MS has
been convicted of being an illegal monopoly, people *still* don't
want to believe it.  The vast majority of the world is content
to be the placid ostrich with their head in the sand (or perhaps
they think MS is the ravenous bug-blatter beast of Traal. :-)

Tanner (wondering how many people won't get my last reference :-)
-- 
Tanner Lovelace | lovelace at wayfarer.org | http://wtl.wayfarer.org/
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 This would be a very good time to hang out with the Open Source 
 people, before they get formally reclassified as a national security 
 threat. -- Bruce Sterling