OT: flame on (was Re: [TriLUG] Debian Bigots)

[Andrew C. Oliver]

So what is your opinion of the installation?  Why does it take 6 months 
less than a Linux based mail server
to set up?  (making reference to the trilug mail server saga)

-Andy

William W. Ward wrote:

>Andrew -
>
>As speaking from the point of a current Exchange administrator, while it may
>take a few minutes to set up (and a few minutes more to realize your SMTP
>relay is hanging open like the fly on your pants,) it will take years off
>you life in ongoing maintenance.
>
>I like Exchange for a number of reasons, the client software integrates
>several nice functions (contacts, shared calendar, etc.) and the server is
>fairly straightforward to manage if its left by itself.  In an enterprise
>environment with heavy loads, it gets tricky.
>
>This may also be true for Sendmail in larger installs, but how many times
>has Sendmail's mail handler bombed due to the content of a message it was
>handling?  We've experienced cases where too many Remote Procedure Call
>threads were allocated for dial-up modem users (they tend to hold RPC pipes
>open for long periods of time, and there were a limited number of pipes that
>could be allocated in that version of Exchange, fixed later,) which blocked
>new connections.  We've had a myriad of other issues and even escalated
>things to the point where we received an apology letter from the top dogs at
>MS.
>
>In short, the lure of MS is the cheap cost of hardware and the low entry
>barrier for administrators, but the hidden price is man hours and downtime.
>
>One last point - a large part of the problem with MS's reputation isn't
>always the quality of its software code, but the inadequacy of the
>administrators implementing and administering these systems.  Because of the
>easy entry to the field, many of the administrators do not get proper
>training, a lot of the pitfalls we've experienced would have been avoided if
>we'd had better training.  Those pitfalls include transaction log volumes
>filling up and halting the services, inadequate monitoring of these systems
>(which would alert one to the disk space shortage,) and non-existent user
>training.
>
>So, Exchange has come a long way, and as long as you sit on top of it to
>ensure it doesn't spool out of disk space when a mail loop occurs (the sort
>of loop caused by autoresponders on both ends,) it will probably be just
>fine.  Course, the client-end is another issue.  Patch those bad boys or
>suffer the wrath of script fu!
>
>-b-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver at apache.org>
>To: <trilug at trilug.org>
>Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:47 AM
>Subject: Re: OT: flame on (was Re: [TriLUG] Debian Bigots)
>
>
>  
>
>>Man I feel all the love.  Now can we all start trying to increase the
>>signal on this conversation and turn it back
>>towards Linux?  I'd like to have an in depth conversation about mail
>>servers (it apparently takes at least 6 months
>>to set one up on linux).
>>
>>I understand Microsoft Exchange can be set up "securely" in a few
>>minutes.  How odd it takes 6 months to set up
>>whatever-mail-service-we-are-planning-to-use on linux ;-)  Is that why
>>people choose exchange on M$ over X on linux?  Because of all that time
>>it takes to set it up?
>>
>>I'd like to understand a little more as to why.  I'm freeing up for time
>>shortly and I'm planning to set my own mail server up so that I can have
>>email thats at least as reliable as the postal service again (although
>>strangely I've started receiving mine today but it might be a fluke).
>>
>>-Andy
>>
>>Lisa Lorenzin wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>john davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>Let me see, you are the pasty white guy who whines about eating
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>veggies
>  
>
>>>>>>cooked on a grill which had previously cooked meat.  Like your opinion
>>>>>>matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>what tanner actually wrote, from the archived article that you quoted:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I can also bring my table top grill if necessary.  If I'm the
>>>>only vegetarian there, though, I can make do with just a small
>>>>part of the grill (which I understand has had meat cooked on
>>>>it before, but would ask to not have meat cooked on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>"not eating veggies cooked on a grill which had previously cooked meat"
>>>!= "not to have meat cooked on that small part that day, at least until
>>>      
>>>
>my
>  
>
>>>vege stuff was cooked)."
>>>
>>>i suggest you take your own advice:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Yeah don't say anything if you don't know what you are talking about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>my point:
>>>
>>>if you're going to be a pedantic a**hole, you'd better be Right, 'cause
>>>there are plenty of other pedantic a**holes out here who will see your
>>>nitpicking and raise you same.
>>>
>>>lisa
>>>
>>>ps.  and yes, kevin, i should know better than to feed the troll.  but
>>>it's monday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>    
>>
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>  
>