[TriLUG] the bootlicker

David R. Matusiak matusiak at speakeasy.net
Fri Aug 30 17:57:04 EDT 2002


#
# flames are up. jobs are down. america approaches the one year anniversary of 
# its biggest black-eye ever. labor day travel has tanked. lots of time to sit 
# on mailing lists and make acerbic comments. ha ha ha. ho ho ho. he he he.
#


the bootlicker
http://www.ipecac.com/picviewer.php?pic=004

<mueller, mike> always with the good commentary:
Some of your potential customer are going to *want* Redhat.  RH is the big dog 
on the block and people know RH. I recommend that you rethink your position 
later on.  You may find the cost of being a RH OEM is not so bad when your 
volume goes up.  Walk away for now, but don't burn the bridge back.
-- 

nice work on all replies, Brent Fox.

--

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C24F5F.C38C8990
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3504.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well Tom unfortuanately I do have to =
hold=20
a real job as well, Selling six PCs does not bring in a Dell type =
revenue,=20
and more unfortunate is that my company uses Windows 2000 Pro SP2.  =
cant=20
help it that Windows is the " premiere " business platform out there=20
<snicker>  I have to use what i am issued.  They told me =
before=20
we got these machines that they were going to put Linux on them but we =
got stuck=20
with MS Windows for some ungodly reason..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Message: 27<BR>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 =
08:47:35=20
-0400<BR>From: "Thomas C. Meggs" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:tom at plik.net">tom at plik.net</A>><BR>To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: =
[TriLUG]=20
RE: UPDATE: Red Hat Sucks<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR><BR>Didn't =
you notice=20
the blasphemy? :)<BR><BR>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express=20
5.50.4522.1200<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Tom<BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C24F5F.C38C8990--


kudos on the "real job"!! glad to hear you are helping the economy.

now, i may not know micro$oft products very well, but i coulda sworrd i saw a 
plain-text email option last time i opened up outlook express. 

i mean, M$ is stubborn and oppressive, but i think they are capable of getting 
something that simple right. who knows? maybe they removed that feature...

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C24F67.F4F26FB0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3504.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First of all Brent, your man deserved =
it. =20
Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect, he failed to do =

so.  He decided he was going to be a jerk so I responded in=20
kind.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second of all, I in no way used Red Hat =
symbols or=20
trademarks at All in fact when I talked to your rep the last time he =
told me=20
that if I did preinstall and distribute retail versions I could not use =
any=20
Powered by Red Hat stickers on my machines or use Red Hat logos in my=20
promotions,  Which I have not done I will bring a couple of my =
brochures to=20
the next meeting to show you.  The only thing I say in my brochures =
is Sold=20
with Linux, the only excerpt that i put in my brochures regarding Red =
Hat, is=20
versions availabe Red Hat Linux and Open Linux Workstation.</FONT></DIV>



--
my emails have nothing to do with any damn company or entity, or whether i work 
there or not. they are literary creations solely owned and copyrighted by me. 
anyone infringing upon these rights will be hunted down and destroyed. by 
opening and reading this email, you have implicitly agreed to receive its 
contents -- so don't complain to me about what is profane and what is not. 
--
___  _ _____ . ....
m a h t o o z e e a c k  a t  s p e e k e e z e e  d o t  n e t
------ / / .........     . . .




On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, trilug-request at trilug.org wrote:

> Send TriLUG mailing list submissions to
> 	trilug at trilug.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	trilug-request at trilug.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	trilug-admin at trilug.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TriLUG digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. RE: KVM Switches (Lisa C. Boyd)
>    2. Re: Dead batteries... aren't very much fun (was: Re: [TriLUG] UPS Batteries) (William W. Ward)
>    3. Re: OT: Webhosting Recommendations (Scott Stancil)
>    4. Re: Dead batteries... aren't very much fun (was: Re: [TriLUG] UPS
>        Batteries) (Douglas Brown)
>    5. Re: Dead batteries... aren't very much fun (was: Re: [TriLUG] UPS  Batteries) (William W. Ward)
>    6. Re: Dead batteries... aren't very much fun (was: Re: [TriLUG] UPS
>        Batteries) (Douglas Brown)
>    7. Re: OEM Policy (Roberto J Dohnert)
>    8. Re: Dead batteries... aren't very much fun (was: Re: [TriLUG] UPS   Batteries) (William W. Ward)
>    9. Re: Blasphemy (Roberto J Dohnert)
>   10. Contemplating Red Hat policy (A M Thomas)
>   11. Re: Ticketing system for Linux? (Elliot Peele)
>   12. Re: Gentle Reminder (Roberto J Dohnert)
>   13. from: address? official capacity? (lfwelty)
>   14. RedHat business debate (Vestal, Roy L.)
>   15. Re: UPS Batteries (James Manning)
>   16. Re: Ticketing system for Linux? (Benjamin Reed)
>   17. Re: OGG (Dan Chen)
>   18. Re: Re: OEM Policy (Ed Hill)
>   19. Re: from: address? official capacity? (Mike Mueller)
>   20. Re: RedHat business debate (Mike Mueller)
>   21. Re: from: address? official capacity? (Jeremy Portzer)
>   22. Re: RedHat business debate (Daniel Monjar)
>   23. Re: RedHat business debate (Thunder Bear)
>   24. RE: RedHat business debate (John R. Hicks)
>   25. Re: RedHat business debate (John Broome)
>   26. Re: from: address? official capacity? (lfwelty)
>   27. Re: from: address? official capacity? (David A. Cafaro)
>   28. Re: adding VFAT FS to a RH 7.3 install (Daniel Monjar)
>   29. Re: from: address? official capacity? (Daniel Monjar)
>   30. Re: from: address? official capacity? (David A. Cafaro)
>   31. Re: Ticketing system for Linux? (Thomas C. Meggs)
>   32. Re: from: address? official capacity? (Kevin Sonney)
>   33. Re: OGG (Thomas C. Meggs)
>   34. Re: UPS Batteries (Robert martin)
>   35. Re: Gentle Reminder (Brent Fox)
>   36. Re: Anyone want to have lunch on Friday? (Tanner Lovelace)
>   37. Re: Anyone want to have lunch on Friday? (Jason Tower)
>   38. Re: OGG [Zinf] (Thomas C. Meggs)
>   39. Re: UPS Batteries (Chris Merrill)
>   40. Re: Anyone want to have lunch on Friday? (William Ward)
>   41. Re: Anyone want to have lunch on Friday? (Lisa C. Boyd)
>   42. Re: RE: UPDATE: Red Hat Sucks (Marty Ferguson)
>   43. Re: RE: UPDATE: Red Hat Sucks (Thomas C. Meggs)
>   44. Linuxisfor------- (Mike Mueller)
>   45. Re: Anyone want to have lunch on Friday? (Mike Mueller)
>   46. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Thunder Bear)
>   47. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (lfwelty)
>   48. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Thunder Bear)
>   49. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (lfwelty)
>   50. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Kim Green)
>   51. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Daniel Monjar)
>   52. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Daniel Monjar)
>   53. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Daniel Monjar)
>   54. Comment about appropriateness of "linuxisfor..." site. [OFF-TOPIC] (William W. Ward)
>   55. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (Kim Green)
>   56. Re: Linuxisfor------- [CONTENT WARNING] (JoJo Almario)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TriLUG mailing list
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TriLUG mailing list
> >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TriLUG mailing list
> > > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TriLUG mailing list
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> >
> > --
> > TriLUG mailing list
> >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> >
> >
> 
> --__--__--
> > > > > TriLUG mailing list
> > > > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > > > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TriLUG mailing list
> > > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TriLUG mailing list
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> > >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TriLUG mailing list
> >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
> > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
> >     http://www.trilug.org/~lovelace/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
> >
> > iD8DBQA9bUkKkytyZh528SMRArtnAJ98uHELjFtFpUKcNi8jte3hJ8p/aQCgm00P
> > /k+vo24Tg2Nqd++hIsPXiIs=
> > =Mgs7
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > --=-fclgYoTZCtzDImvhxpGU--
> >
> > -- __--__-- 
> >
> > Message: 17
> > From: Mike Mueller <mjm-58 at mindspring.com>
> > To: trilug at trilug.org
> > Subject: Re: [TriLUG] Re: gentle reminder
> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 18:13:29 -0400
> > Reply-To: trilug at trilug.org
> >
> > On Wednesday 28 August 2002 15:27, Roberto J Dohnert wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > The threat was worded like this " If you
> > > continue to preload Red Hat Linux without being a registered OEM we will
> > > sue you and it doesnt matter if you buy a retail version or not we will
> not
> > > offer any support for anybody who buys a computer preloaded with Red Hat
> > > Linux from any reseller who is not an OEM.
> > <snip>
> >
> > IANAL, but my guess is that the dispute is about representing the distro.
> RH
> > and SUSE and other commercial distros try to establish a brand and then
> > control the distribution channels as is their right.  If I had a distro
> and a
> > support organization, I would size the support based on the predicted
> sales
> > from known channels.  If I had unknown channels supplying unforseen
> support
> > load, I would be blowing my budget.
> >
> > RH did lay out the conditions to be an OEM.  You also found SUSE had a
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3504.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well Tom unfortuanately I do have to =
> hold=20
> a real job as well, Selling six PCs does not bring in a Dell type =
> revenue,=20
> and more unfortunate is that my company uses Windows 2000 Pro SP2.  =
> cant=20
> help it that Windows is the " premiere " business platform out there=20
> <snicker>  I have to use what i am issued.  They told me =
> before=20
> we got these machines that they were going to put Linux on them but we =
> got stuck=20
> with MS Windows for some ungodly reason..</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Message: 27<BR>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 =
> 08:47:35=20
> -0400<BR>From: "Thomas C. Meggs" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:tom at plik.net">tom at plik.net</A>><BR>To: <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: =
> [TriLUG]=20
> RE: UPDATE: Red Hat Sucks<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR><BR>Didn't =
> you notice=20
> the blasphemy? :)<BR><BR>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express=20
> 5.50.4522.1200<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Tom<BR></DIV></FONT>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C24F5F.C38C8990--
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3504.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First of all Brent, your man deserved =
> it. =20
> Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect, he failed to do =
> 
> so.  He decided he was going to be a jerk so I responded in=20
> kind.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second of all, I in no way used Red Hat =
> symbols or=20
> trademarks at All in fact when I talked to your rep the last time he =
> told me=20
> that if I did preinstall and distribute retail versions I could not use =
> any=20
> Powered by Red Hat stickers on my machines or use Red Hat logos in my=20
> promotions,  Which I have not done I will bring a couple of my =
> brochures to=20
> the next meeting to show you.  The only thing I say in my brochures =
> is Sold=20
> with Linux, the only excerpt that i put in my brochures regarding Red =
> Hat, is=20
> versions availabe Red Hat Linux and Open Linux Workstation.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have no problem with your Linux =
> offerings, =20
> I still do believe that Red Hat Linux is the best distro out there to=20
> date.  I meant some of your company reps suck.  If Red Hat had =
> told me=20
> that to get support I had to be a registered OEM I would have had no =
> problem=20
> with going to another company.  But what did they do.  One =
> told me I=20
> could do it like this, then a month later I have another one of your =
> reps=20
> screaming at me telling me that its unacceptable and that if I keep it =
> up we are=20
> going to sue you, thats where my problem lies I even gave him the name =
> of the=20
> rep that told me I could preinstall and distribute retail =
> versions. =20
> Instead of saying okay I will check it out and give you a call back, he =
> tells me=20
> that no rep would ever say that. So he was calling me a liar.  If =
> he had=20
> gone to talk to the man, and he remebered me, which he would have Im a =
> hard=20
> person to forget, all hyper and jumping off walls all the time and =
> cantsit still=20
> for 5 minutes. call me back say okay sorry the rep was wrong, hey no=20
> problems.  It is called courtesy and being polite.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have no problems with your prices and =
> your=20
> policies at all.  And I have no problem with your product at =
> all.  But=20
> you guys need to sit down tell all your reps what the policies are so =
> that you=20
> can avoid problems like these to begin with.  If your reps dont =
> know the=20
> policies and its apparent some of them dont you will get conflicting=20
> stories.  I mean my mother doesnt work for me but she knows my =
> policies for=20
> my business in fact she has lined me up two customers that I have to set =
> up on=20
> Tuesday, one told her that thay wanted Windows XP and she told them " =
> Sorry my=20
> son doesnt do Windows XP ".  So what they are doing is buying the =
> Machine=20
> and buying Windows XP and Im going to set up a Dual boot machine for =
> them. =20
> But what if she had told them " Sure no problem " I would have been =
> messed up,=20
> its called positive communication.   But with Red Hat, one =
> tells me=20
> one thing another tells me another and the dude still couldnt tell me if =
> I could=20
> even sell the boxed Retail versions without preinstalling them.  I =
> dont=20
> really want an OEM partnership, my original plan is to service all the =
> linux=20
> community not just one version.   Mandrakesoft has the same =
> policy as=20
> Red Hat and their rep told me that right off the bat so I left with no=20
> confusion.  Your reps gave me a headache.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: [TriLUG] Re: gentle =
> reminder<BR>From:=20
> Brent Fox <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:chinfox at nc.rr.com">chinfox at nc.rr.com</A>><BR>To: <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR>Cc: Thunder =
> Bear <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:thunderbear at yonderway.com">thunderbear at yonderway.com</A>&g=
> t;<BR>Date:=20
> 29 Aug 2002 10:21:42 -0400<BR>Reply-To: <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:trilug at trilug.org">trilug at trilug.org</A><BR><BR>Full =
> disclosure: As=20
> many of you know, I work for Red Hat, but my<BR>opinions stated here are =
> mine=20
> alone and do not represent my employer in<BR>any way.<BR><BR>On Wed, =
> 2002-08-28=20
> at 15:27, Roberto J Dohnert wrote:<BR>> Sorry about the language =
> Chris. =20
> Just it is enough to upset anybody,<BR>> especially when you get so =
> many=20
> conflicts from one company.  At one point<BR>> and I think you =
> guys will=20
> remember this they told me that it was fine for me<BR>> to do that =
> because=20
> they couldnt offer support on the complimentary CDs that<BR>> they=20
> offer,  Which is fine I can understand that.  But when you =
> tell me=20
> that<BR>> if I spend 59.00 on a standard edition of RH 7.3 just so I =
> can get=20
> that<BR>> support, then refuse my customers service it makes me look =
> like a=20
> scumbag<BR>> especially when I worked so hard to push the =
> product. =20
> <BR><BR>The issue is that you're selling pre-loaded machines, not just=20
> reselling<BR>box copies of the OS.  If you're going to use Red =
> Hat's name=20
> and<BR>trademark to help you sell machines, Red Hat wants you to pay for =
> 
> the<BR>privilege of using trademarks that they own.  RH can decide =
> to=20
> license<BR>their trademarks any way they choose. <BR><BR>> I had =
> several=20
> would<BR>> be customers turn me away because I dont preload MS =
> Windows which=20
> means I<BR>> have to prove the viability of Linux on the =
> desktop. =20
> Unlike Compaq and Dell<BR>> which offer a Windows alternative,  =
> But Im=20
> just starting out, I cant afford<BR>> 748.00 for support options and =
> I sure=20
> cant afford the licensing fees for MS<BR>> Windows.  <BR><BR>Ok, =
> so the=20
> OEM agreement has a price ($748, apparently).  You decide =
> you<BR>can't=20
> afford $748.  Guess what?  No deal.  This is where=20
> reasonable<BR>people decide that they can't come to an agreement and go =
> on about=20
> their<BR>lives.  This happens in business all the time.<BR><BR>But =
> you=20
> couldn't stop there.  Oh no.  You decide to say some=20
> unspeakably<BR>awful things to the salesperson and then run to your =
> local LUG to=20
> tell<BR>everyone how much Red Hat "sucks".  I can't think of any =
> reason to=20
> ever<BR>say the things you said to another human being.  =
> Ever.  And=20
> then be so<BR>proud over what you've done to go brag about it in a =
> public forum,=20
> even<BR>mentioning the salesperson by name.  What a nice fellow you =
> 
> are.<BR><BR>Salespeople are not in the business of turning down =
> money.  If=20
> the<BR>salesperson decided not to do business with you because doing so=20
> would<BR>ultimately cost the company more than it brings in, then they =
> made=20
> the<BR>right decision for the company and the shareholders.  =
> <BR><BR>It's=20
> not RH's problem that you're just starting out and that you =
> can't<BR>afford the=20
> OEM agreement.  You seem to want all the benefits of an =
> OEM<BR>partnership=20
> without having to pay for it.  I'm sorry but that's not =
> how<BR>business=20
> works.<BR><BR>> The threat was worded like this " If you continue to =
> preload=20
> Red<BR>> Hat Linux without being a registered OEM we will sue you and =
> it=20
> doesnt<BR>> matter if you buy a retail version or not we will not =
> offer any=20
> support for<BR>> anybody who buys a computer preloaded with Red Hat =
> Linux=20
> from any reseller<BR>> who is not an OEM. wether it is a supported =
> Retail=20
> version or not." But my<BR>> concern is that these people put the =
> faith in me=20
> and my systems on my word<BR>> alone.  If they need support and =
> Im not=20
> available who do they turn to ? <BR><BR>Again, it's not RH's problem =
> that you=20
> made promises to your customers<BR>that you couldn't keep because you =
> weren't a=20
> registered OEM.  RH never<BR>made any promises to your customers, =
> you=20
> did.<BR><BR><snip><BR><BR>> Red Hat needs to relearn its role=20
> because<BR>> they say " We are the best " but they havent showed me =
> anything=20
> to suggest<BR>> they are the best.  <BR><BR>And what is Red =
> Hat's role,=20
> exactly?  Red Hat has done more to promote<BR>Linux than any other=20
> company.  They GPL all the software they write for<BR>their =
> distro. =20
> SuSE doesn't do that.  Red Hat makes the ISOs available<BR>for =
> anyone to=20
> download for free.  SuSE doesn't do that either.  =
> Somehow<BR>people=20
> get the idea that just because Red Hat gives away the software<BR>they =
> should=20
> give away everything else including support, use of<BR>trademarks, =
> etc. =20
> It's not a charity.<BR><BR>Roberto, you're a businessman.  Let's =
> say a=20
> customer comes to you and<BR>says, "I want to buy a machine."  You =
> say,=20
> "Great!  Which one would you<BR>like?"  Customer says, "The =
> top of the=20
> line.  But I only want to pay $50<BR>bucks."  You say, "But =
> that=20
> machine costs $2000.  I cannot afford to<BR>sell it for $50."  =
> The=20
> customer says, "I demand you sell it to me for<BR>$50."  Again, you =
> say,=20
> "No."  So the customer curses you like you are a<BR>piece of =
> garbage and=20
> then goes and tells the world how bad you "suck". <BR>Sounds like you =
> could do=20
> without customers like that.  Do you see the<BR>connection=20
> here?<BR><BR>> The only thing I have gotten from them is =
> insults,<BR>>=20
> misinformation, threats and contempt.<BR><BR>Ok, this is what really set =
> me=20
> off.  When I read your original email to<BR>TriLUG back in May, I =
> took time=20
> out of my day to go talk to the people<BR>in Sales and try to figure out =
> what=20
> happened and smooth things over.  I<BR>was really nice to you and =
> tried to=20
> help you out, and now you say that<BR>"the only thing I have gotten from =
> them is=20
> insults, misinformation,<BR>threats and contempt."  Baloney.  =
> I don't=20
> know why you never received<BR>the free cds that were promised to you, =
> but from=20
> your behavior to the<BR>salesperson, is that any wonder?  =
> <BR><BR>>=20
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Thunder Bear" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:thunderbear at yonderway.com">thunderbear at yonderway.com</A>&g=
> t;<BR>>=20
> To: <<A =
> href=3D"mailto:webwarrior at mac.com">webwarrior at mac.com</A>><BR>>=20
> Cc: <<A =
> href=3D"mailto:steering at trilug.org">steering at trilug.org</A>><BR>>=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:58 AM<BR>> Subject: gentle=20
> reminder<BR>> <BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks, and please keep us =
> apprised=20
> of the situation.<BR>> ><BR>> > BTW - I'd like to hear more =
> about=20
> the legal threat Red Hat gave you WRT<BR>> > preloading their =
> distro on=20
> machines.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but<BR>> > doesn't the =
> GPL=20
> prevent them from doing any such thing?<BR><BR>Thunder Bear, as I =
> understand it=20
> the GPL allows anyone to pre-load the<BR>actual bits on the Red Hat cd, =
> only=20
> they can't use the Red Hat<BR>trademarks to help them sell the machine =
> without=20
> authorization from the<BR>trademark owner.  In order to sell a =
> machine with=20
> "pre-loaded Red Hat<BR>Linux" as one of the features, you have to pay =
> Red Hat=20
> for the ability<BR>to use the trademark.<BR><BR>I think it's the same =
> sort of=20
> thing that happened with CheapBytes<BR>selling copies of the Red Hat =
> Linux=20
> distro as "Red Hat Linux."  No one<BR>has the right to use =
> trademarks that=20
> they don't own.  I think if Roberto<BR>wanted to pre-load the =
> actual bits=20
> but call it "Roberto's Linux" then<BR>that would be ok.  I don't =
> understand=20
> all the nuances of trademark law,<BR>but it seems that a company must =
> defend=20
> it's trademarks or risk losing<BR>them.<BR><BR>> ><BR>> > =
> Your post=20
> illustrates the beauty of the Linux community in that if one<BR>> =
> > distro=20
> is screwing you, there are many other fine distros to turn to.<BR>>=20
> ><BR><BR>Yes, there are many fine distros and that is one of the =
> great=20
> strengths<BR>of Linux.  However, I don't see how Red Hat "screwed" =
> anybody=20
> here.  <BR><BR><BR>Cheers, <BR>  =20
> Brent<BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C24F67.F4F26FB0--
> 
> 






More information about the TriLUG mailing list