[TriLUG] Re: [OT] propane BBQs by my Window

Sinner from the Prairy sinner at escomposlinux.org
Fri May 9 15:41:20 EDT 2003


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On Friday 09 May 2003 02:2214pm, That One Guy wrote:
> On Friday 09 May 2003 01:43 pm, Sinner from the Prairy wrote:
> > As far as I know, SSH is a proprietary solution. OpenSSH, on the
> > other hand, is an OpenSource solution. And Windows is not
> > OpenSource.

> The two solutions listed the original "SSHD on Windows" posting were
> open source pieces of software.  Nowhere in that posting did it list
> a non-opensource solution, nor did the poster ask for one.

You are right here. Seeing "windows" (again!) on a message to the list 
triggered me. Although I got xonfused with the "sshd" part, as I 
nuderstand that sshd is a propietary solution.

Mea culpa.

Although to me, seeking help on using/installing products for the 
windows platform is a little too far out of the scope of the list.

Linux, *BSD and *nix are very much alike, so your knowledge in one 
platform has a high chance of being "portable" to another platurm, thus 
being able to help someone with a problem.

Then, Windows is a platform very much different from the ones in the 
previous paragraph. So the knowledge in Linux is probably not very 
"portable" to Windows. 

So, in my little logocal mind, I find a Linux site a place where your 
chances are low for finding proper information and help for Windows 
platform.

The internet is big. Resources abound. You can be very specific "Windows 
users from Oregon that are Left Handed and like Carolina-style BBQ". 
Well, maybe not *that* specific, but good resources exist for every 
platform.

As I'm subscribed to "mpfteen" lists, I like noise reduced to a very 
very minimum. 

Of course, that's myself. And as myself, I voice my opinion on the list.

> > For myself, my eyes flip everytime I see here a post about Windows
> > in this list. I guess by now most of the people in the list are
> > grown up enough and can see that mixing Windows and Linux is a sure
> > way to build angriness in some people.

> Seems a bit of an aggressive posture.  

My experience in internet tells me this. It's not me. I see insane 
flamewars, name-calling contests and who-is-the-silliest-poster 
competition abound in mailing lists, webgroups, newsgroups and such.

Specialy on a written media, where you can not really tell if someone is 
joking, trying to be funny, has English as a 5th language... or just 
plainly is a troll-in-the-making.

> It seems as though the problem
> here is not whether the subject matter is about open source or not. 
> The mark here seems to be if a search for "Windows" or "Mircrosoft"
> in a posting comes up positive then it is celebrity death match time.

Ask yourself if you've read before something like "Linux suxs, Windows 
is the only way" or the other way around "Window$$ L00$3r·, beholdd the 
p0w3R of th3 Penguin! Total World Domination!".

Then, someone as Steve Ballmer called FOSS+Linux a Cancer and describes 
FOSS developers as Comunists. 

Maybe you don't know, but those are opposing camps. And they usualy 
clash.


And I do not want to see clashes in this list. This is way I do not like 
Windows questions on the list. I did not enjoy at all last year's 
flame-fest. Quite a few of fellow triluggers got very upset, angry and 
just plain mad.

I don't want to see it all over again. I don't know if you were in the 
list, but for sure this put tons of bad PR and horse manure in the 
Linux camp. Do you want people that just learned about Linux seeing a 
flamewar going on, with +40 flammig messages a day ?

That's why my posiiton and interest on the topic.

> Does the group really want to portray a "We're right, Windows is
> wrong, Case closed, come to the LUG meeting" mentality?

Nope. See my previous parragraphs.

> > Windows has its place. Linux has its place.

> Let's have separate dining areas and restrooms too!

Ahhhh. When I go to the restroom, I make sure that I go to the one 
marked as "gents" as I'm male. I could just go to the "ladies", just to 
pursue more understanding among sexes and break artificial barriers 
that put us appart in our fisiologycal needs. But I don't.

And dinning areas... smoking or non smoking?

I expect you to understand your point.

> > What happens when somebody gives a presentation at TriLUG with a
> > Windows laptop? Wooing, finger-pointing, general laughter, shouts
> > of "use a real OS!" and all this stuff. That's my experience in the
> > last 2+ years at TriLUG meetings.

> Right.  Now, that is a bit different from the Linux is right, Windows
> is wrong, stay off my list mentality.  To me, a more apples to apples
> analogy would be if they should have been asked (seriously) to leave
> the room and not give a presentation with the Windows laptop.

Presentations are important, as we all learn something. And there's 
freedom of speach and nowhere in TriLUG says that you must use such and 
such for your presentations. 

And we do recommend them (politely and merrily) to abandon the legacy 
O.S. *grin*

> Inter-OS rivalries are one thing, the attitude here seems to be
> something more, something deeper.

My point is: use the best tool for your question. This is not the best 
place for Windows knowledge, as the TRiNTUG is not a good place to 
search for questions on Linux-related issues.

When your quest involves both fields, then be smart in yor writting. 
There's a very nice "ask questions-HOWTO" by rms (??? )

> > Have you ever tried to ask a Linux question on a Windows list? You
> > haven't? Why? Exactly. You know that it doesn't belong there. You
> > know that you will be scorned, flammed and called names. At least.
> > Because "Linux is the enemy".

> Why don't real firefighters just use flame throwers?  Oh, I know. 
> Because it's not quite as effective.

Exactly. Is your time of any importance to you? Use the best tool to the 
job. Agreed, a flamethrower can stop a fire, as it could consume the 
existing oxygen and the fire goes away. But the point is to stpo the 
fire *and* avoid more burning stuff going on.

> > Examine yourselves, do not try to find "the opensource trail" in
> > unappropriated questions, because OpenSource is everywhere: Windows
> > use(d) the TCP/IP stack from BSD, so we could argue that anything
> > related to Windows is fair game, as Windows uses OpenSource code.

> Just examine the messages for the words "Windows" and/or "Mircosoft".
> Admonish once, and then drop repeat offenders from the list.  

I cannot do that. I'm just a trilugger as you. 

What I can do is raise my concerns about a bad-situation-in-the-making, 
trying to point out the obvious: this is a Linux-related list. 
Non-Linux stuff could find no good answer.

> Hey,
> sounds like a job for procmail and an opportunity to have a great new
> script/tool put up on Freshmeat!

Kmail has filters, thank you very much. But I do not want to filter 
TriLug. I just want very low "noise".

> > I switched to Linux because I do not like the Windows way, its
> > philosophy, it's abusive licenses... The last thing I expect while
> > on a Linux group is Windows discussion.

> Bummer.  Life is heterogeneous.

So? If I want to read about gardening, TriGardug would be the place. If 
I want to learn about vegetarian cooking, TriVug will be the place. But 
asking for good computer support companies at TriGardug or about proper 
seasoning for a NY Strip Steak at TriVug is just not "efficent".

Should I tell the vegans "do not blame me, life is heterogeneous"?

> > In short: I guess we need to enhance the point 3.4 on
> > http://www.trilug.org/faq/TriLUG-faq-3.html#ss3.4

> Automation is the key.  Freshmeat here someone comes!

I guess a better understanding of the available resources is the key,


Salut,
Sinner
- -- 
http://www.ibiblio.org/sinner/     Linux User # 89976
Testing Mandrake 9.1 -    Linux Machine # 38068
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