[TriLUG] OT: Contemplations on tolerance...

[William Sutton]

OK, I succumbed in a moment (or two or three) of weakness and joined the 
crowd during the flamefest.  I'll work on being more genteel :)

Now then, I believe the gentleman from Calgary wasn't trolling to start 
trouble.  I believe he got his monthly reminder, probably for the first 
time, and panicked.  It probably wasn't the best or brightest reaction 
he's had in a while, but I'd bet my slices of pizza at the next meeting 
that we've all had a similar reaction at one time or other.

I agree that what makes us strong is helping each other.  My friend Mark 
Spencer, when he introduced me to Linux, told me that helping people was 
"The Linux Way" (TM).  By the same token, you can't hold someone's hand 
on everything.  There comes a time when you have to show them how to fend 
for themself.  Mark's response to me, at a certain point, was to ignore 
questions or reply that I should read the manual.

In mentoring people myself, I've taken the tack that if I can answer the 
question the first dozen times, I do.  After that, if I know the answer, I 
go socratic.  If I don't know the answer, I suggest possible resources, or 
suggest a google search or two.  Eventually, like myself, they find other 
sources to get information from.

Part of the problem with mentoring newbies is sensing whether they have 
the skills at hand to troubleshoot their own problems.  If they don't know 
the basic commands (ls, rm, find, which, locate, grep), how to use them, 
and basic system layout, giving them a "poke" isn't going to help them.

Now, back to the poking.  We didn't give our acquaintance from Calgary a 
poke.  We singed his back side and slammed the door on it for good 
measure.  Argue it how you like, the evidence is on the list archives, and 
we flamed him.  Admittedly, from a RTFM POV, his question looked 
ridiculously stupid, and we ridiculed him.

Jon is right.  Those of us who flamed should be ashamed...and should do 
better.

William

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Magnus Hedemark wrote:

> On 2 Mar 2004, Jon Carnes wrote:
> 
> > The Triangle Linux Users Group is one of the finest Open Source
> > Communities in the world.
> 
> +1
> 
> I wouldn't consider myself as well travelled as many here, but I've been 
> around and I've seen a few things, been a few places, met a few people.  
> TriLUG is definitely IMO a superlative users group.  Why else would I 
> continue to be involved now from the other side of the Mason-Dixon line?  
> I've attended meetings for a number of LUGs up this way and have been left 
> unimpressed.
> 
> > For that reason folks as far away as Calgary
> > and even further have opted to join us.
> 
> I don't know, Jon, I'm thinking maybe you've been duped on that one.
> 
> Ultimately I think the community needs both kinds of voices.  Too many of 
> the overly patient voices can get the newbie stuck in a rut, left 
> unchallenged.  The ocassional sharp poke with a stick can chase people 
> off, true, but when applied at the right time it can be an effective tool 
> to get people to read up a little more before posting questions and learn 
> the skills of resourcefulness.
> 
> You're clearly one of the people answering more questions than asking, and 
> I think a lot of that has to do with your ability to find answers for 
> yourself when these questions have been anticipated and documented (or 
> even answered to a previous questioner and indexed by Google).
> 
> Don't forget the old proverb about giving a man a fish vs. teaching him to 
> fish.  Sometimes the would-be fisherman gets a bit lazy and enjoys the 
> free fish handouts, and needs a good kick in the can to get motivated and 
> learn how to fish for himself.
> 
> The Calgary Troll, BTW, wasn't here to ask any questions or learn about 
> Open Source Software.  He was here to start trouble, nothing more, nothing 
> less.
> 
>