[TriLUG] Flaking PSU?

[Jim Ray]

ibm and hp have the 15k options.  not dell.

http://www.neuse.net/server/features.shtml

i'd rather just tell someone you gonna hafta pay $4k for a decent server 
instead of every little thing being an option that always jacks up the 
price way beyond dell's advertised base model.

regards,

jim

Jim Ray, President
Neuse River Network, Inc.

tel: 919-838-1672 x111
http://www.Neuse.Net

Ask about our Clean Technologies.  Established in the Carolinas 1997.

kevin at flanagannc.net wrote:
> It's no secret that I don't have a lot of love for Dell, but I'm fairly
> sure that you can get 15K RPM disks if you want to in your Dell system.
> That's how most vendors work.
> 
> Faster rotation isn't always a performance gain, if your system is I/O
> bound, that that will help, but even then, not always.  If you have a lot
> of data, and need disk performance you are better off spending your dough
> on more spindles to dedicate, and more channels.  IDE will never do a good
> job for I/O heavy apps, just not in the design.
> 
> Other times you have memory bound apps that don't use the disk much.
> 
> Still other times you have CPU bound apps that don't use disks much.
> 
> Other considerations include,
> 
> 
>  - CPU to RAM transfers
>  - I/O bus, can you get that data from the disk controller to the
> processor fast enough?
>  - PCI,PCE, or PCIX controllers, are they fast enough?
> 
> 
> 
> The big point here is that there are a LOT of things, if you want a
> general purpose server that'll do anything you won't get one that will do
> everything, at least without spending a LOT of money.
> 
> 
> As for service, that's often a factor of the size of the business.  I can
> get a replacement disk very quickly. I had to call HP for one a while
> back.  I called at 4PM, spent about 5 minutes on the phone, when I came in
> at 8 AM the next day, the new drive was on my desk.  All hot swap, the
> users never would have known.
> 
> 
> Lots to consider......
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> it is no skin off my nose that dell likes intel.  dell just happens to
>> use inferior quality hard drives that run at 10,000 rpm instead of
>> 15,000 rpm hot swap scsi screamers.  there's a direct correlation
>> between hard drive rpm and speed of server.  you pay a premium to get
>> the speed yet get pay back every day when employees get their work done
>> faster.
>>
>> dell's service really blows grits when you have to spend 30 minutes on
>> the phone explaining that the hard disk needs replacement when you hear
>> ker chunka chunk chunk noises.  then, you have to wait 3 days to get the
>> replacement part if you are still inside the whopping 90 day warranty.
>>
>> i like our n3 server because a little lit goes off and a beeper sounds
>> to let you know the hot spare is automatically kicking in.  me thinks
>> the manufacturer has a 5 year warranty as well.
>>
>> of course, there are those that want to go straight to dell.  don't pass
>> go.  don't collect $200.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> jim
>>
>> Jim Ray, President
>> Neuse River Network, Inc.
>>
>> tel: 919-838-1672 x111
>> http://www.Neuse.Net
>>
>> Ask about our Clean Technologies.  Established in the Carolinas 1997.
>>
>> Matthew Lavigne wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> You do realize that with the exception of any of the alienware systems
>>> or  AMD systems that Dell may sell, Dell is firmly an Intel shop.
>>> Meaning that the motherboards that they sell are Intel reference design
>>> and are generally the board that Intel recommends to the vendors to
>>> use.  As far as cheap, my guess is if you buy any GigByte boards then
>>> you are most likely using what Dell is (as the last time that I checked
>>> that was who they were using to build the Intel reference boards for
>>> them).
>>>
>>> Just a point of clarification.
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Soon to be in New York looking for a new LUG.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Ray wrote:
>>>> my argument for folks spending $4000+ for a real server is as follows.
>>>> here is the one we sell that has the necessary hardware under the hood
>>>> for an entry level small business running linux or winders:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.neuse.net/server
>>>>
>>>> the first point brings up the insurance argument.  do you have
>>>> insurance for your business?  of course, you do.  everyone does (or at
>>>> least should).  so, the RAID5 with hot spare, redundant power supplies
>>>> and ECC memory insure risk of downtime and data loss.
>>>>
>>>> as for optiplex vs dimension, i stay away from both and am partial to
>>>> intel motherboards because i've been working with their chips since
>>>> 1981 when the SDK85 with a whopping 8085A processor came out.  i don't
>>>> care who stamps their name on the front.  dell likes cheap and fast.
>>>> i like local and high quality.  fact of the matter is that i can get
>>>> local and high quality cheaper than dell as well.
>>>>
>>>> if they've got budget for the expensive UPS, they've got budget for a
>>>> real server.
>>>>
>>>> just my $0.02.
>>>>
>>>> hth,
>>>>
>>>> jim
>>>> Jim Ray, President
>>>> Neuse River Network, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> tel: 919-838-1672 x111
>>>> http://www.Neuse.Net
>>>>
>>>> Ask about our Clean Technologies.  Established in the Carolinas 1997.
>>>>
>>>> Brian Henning wrote:
>>>>> That's fair, and I'll answer it honestly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Partly, it's due to my inexperience and shortcomings as a
>>>>> salesperson.  At
>>>>> this point, I'm not very good at making a convincing argument for a
>>>>> $3,000
>>>>> machine that, on the surface, appears to do no more than a
>>>>> similarly-spec'ed
>>>>> $500 machine.  (Yes.  What I described is essentially a desktop-grade
>>>>> machine in a server case.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The second factor is the person to whom I have to make the sale.  In
>>>>> this
>>>>> particular company, the concept of opportunity cost is almost
>>>>> unknown.  If I
>>>>> spend $500 on parts, and yet end up devoting 100 hours out of the
>>>>> next year
>>>>> to direct service of said parts, he still feels like he's come out
>>>>> ahead.
>>>>> (and in fact, at my current pay scale, compared to a $3,000 capital
>>>>> investment, for those numbers he does come out quite a bit ahead,
>>>>> opportunity cost notwithstanding).  In this company, for example, we
>>>>> buy
>>>>> Dimensions instead of Optiplexes except in the case of incentive
>>>>> programs
>>>>> such as UPS' Customer Technology Program.  This company would rather
>>>>> spend
>>>>> two weeks to a month every year cyclically creating new QuickBooks
>>>>> company
>>>>> files and jumping through the hoops necessary to carry critical data
>>>>> over
>>>>> (as well as creating the headaches of tracking previous transactions)
>>>>> than
>>>>> put down the up-front cost of a financial system that can better
>>>>> handle the
>>>>> stress of a business which lives largely in the retail market (where
>>>>> we can
>>>>> easily have a customer list that grows by 15,000 in a year).
>>>>>
>>>>> Gradually the mentality of the company is changing.  We now have a
>>>>> proper
>>>>> 2500VA UPS system in our network closet, rather than the two or three
>>>>> desktop UPSes that used to live in there.  But the closet (which now
>>>>> houses
>>>>> six computers, the UPS, and our PBX equipment) is still being
>>>>> (ineffectively) cooled by a mildew-filled sputtery 20-year-old
>>>>> window-unit
>>>>> air conditioner, despite my continuing suggestions that the A/C can't
>>>>> keep
>>>>> up with the heat output of the equipment.  It's a smallish company,
>>>>> with a
>>>>> strongly-entrenched small-company mentality.
>>>>>
>>>>> So there's the long answer.  The short answer is "it's what makes the
>>>>> boss
>>>>> happy right now."
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> ~B
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: trilug-bounces at trilug.org [mailto:trilug-bounces at trilug.org]On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Kevin Flanagan
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:09 PM
>>>>>> To: Triangle Linux Users Group discussion list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TriLUG] Flaking PSU?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I've got to ask the question, if you wanted a server, why didn't
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> buy one. I don't see anything that you are doing in the system you
>>>>>> listed out that couldn't be done in a desktop.  If you pay the
>>>>>> premium
>>>>>> you get quality and service.  If you add up all of the parts, and
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> time, will you really end up saving dough over buying a "name
>>>>>> brand" server?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $.02
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Kevin
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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> 
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