[TriLUG] FBI director wants ISPs to track users

Matthew Lavigne lavigne at thosebastards.net
Thu Oct 19 21:50:43 EDT 2006


WA Brown wrote:
> I am only replying once to this. This kind of attitude surprises me. 
> Being a Linux group, I would think that privacy and freedom are 
> tremendous concern to you.  I appreciate any warnings of something 
> that will affect me! This has everything to do with Linux. Do you 
> think its ok for some government stooge to remotely start your webcam 
> and microphone and watch your daughter get dressed in her bedroom? Or 
> watch you and you wife in private moments? Or come and arrest your son 
> because he stumbled on an "UN-PC" site? I think this will affect 
> Linux,Mac,Microsoft and anybody that has a computer.
>

This attitude is from someone that has already unsubscribed from this 
list previously for the same kind of garbage in the past.  Privacy and 
freedom are important to me but that has little to do with my enjoyment 
of Linux.  My linux enjoyment comes more from the technical challenge 
then from the fact that no one but me knows how or what I am doing.  As 
someone that is and will be on the FBI's watch list (mostly do to what I 
was exposed to while in the US Army), my privacy concerns are less of a 
worry about the government and more about someone that is looking to 
trojan a system of mine.

The time that the gov't will bust down doors looking for some that is un 
PC is a ways off and I have a feeling that in the next few years, the 
political landscape may start to shift to the surprise and joy of many, 
or so I can hope.

Again, I still firmly believe that this is not the forum for this type 
of discussion... go hit alt.politics.paranoid and talk about it there.


> (quote)
> Other then a direct copy (likely copyright infringement)
>> and along with a link  there is no other comments in either post.
>
> I do this so anybody that read this will know exactly what was said 
> and where it came from. It is self-explanitory so why would you need a 
> comment? I suppose you pay for all your programs,music and drive 55mph?
>

Again, you missed the point.  Did you have permission from Wired to 
reprint or repost that article?  Can you say that if you don't then you 
likely placed yourself and possibly the LUG in jeopardy of legal action. 
A link would have been more then sufficient along with comments on what 
your thoughts on the policy was, and possibly keeping it in topic by 
posting how it would relate to linux.


>
>> Please can we keep this garbage off of the list?
>
> If you think its garbage to notify you of something that will affect 
> your safety and freedoms then don't reply to this kind of message.
>
>

Offtopic political linking and reposting without commentary or reasoning 
is garbage/SPAM.  I am not an ostrich by an means, but just cause I am 
paranoid, doesn't mean that they are out to get me.  Let's be realistic, 
what do you do that would interest the government enough for them to spy 
on you?  I know why they would want to watch me... but I know that in 
the end, it wouldn't be worth it to them (and I would like to keep by 
clearance up).

Matthew



> WA Brown
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Lavigne" 
> <lavigne at thosebastards.net>
> To: "Triangle Linux Users Group discussion list" <trilug at trilug.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [TriLUG] FBI director wants ISPs to track users
>
>
>> OK, only going to reply to one of these but can we keep the political 
>> BS and talking heads off the linux list?  I understand that this has 
>> privacy concerns but what do either of the threads posted have to do 
>> with linux? Other then a direct copy (likely copyright infringement) 
>> and along with a link  there is no other comments in either post.
>>
>> Please can we keep this garbage off of the list?
>>
>> <brownwa at ftc-i.net was added to the killfile>
>>
>> Matthew
>> enjoying the spoils of moving back to NY
>>
>> WA Brown wrote:
>>> http://news.com.com/FBI+director+wants+ISPs+to+track+users/2100-7348_3-6126877.html?tag=nefd.top 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FBI director wants ISPs to track users
>>> Robert Mueller becomes latest Bush administration official to call 
>>> for ISPs to store customers' data.
>>> By Declan McCullagh
>>> Staff Writer, CNET News.com
>>>
>>> Published: October 17, 2006, 4:18 PM PDT
>>> TalkBack E-mail Print del.icio.us Digg this
>>> FBI Director Robert Mueller on Tuesday called on Internet service 
>>> providers to record their customers' online activities, a move that 
>>> anticipates a fierce debate over privacy and law enforcement in 
>>> Washington next year.
>>>
>>> "Terrorists coordinate their plans cloaked in the anonymity of the 
>>> Internet, as do violent sexual predators prowling chat rooms," 
>>> Mueller said in a speech at the International Association of Chiefs 
>>> of Police conference in Boston.
>>>
>>> "All too often, we find that before we can catch these offenders, 
>>> Internet service providers have unwittingly deleted the very records 
>>> that would help us identify these offenders and protect future 
>>> victims," Mueller said. "We must find a balance between the 
>>> legitimate need for privacy and law enforcement's clear need for 
>>> access."
>>>
>>> The speech to the law enforcement group, which approved a resolution 
>>> on the topic earlier in the day, echoes other calls from Bush 
>>> administration officials to force private firms to record 
>>> information about customers. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, for 
>>> instance, told Congress last month that "this is a national problem 
>>> that requires federal legislation."
>>>
>>> Justice Department officials admit privately that data retention 
>>> legislation is controversial enough that there wasn't time to ease 
>>> it through the U.S. Congress before politicians left to campaign for 
>>> re-election. Instead, the idea is expected to surface in early 2007, 
>>> and one Democratic politician has already promised legislation.
>>>
>>> Law enforcement groups claim that by the time they contact Internet 
>>> service providers, customers' records may have been deleted in the 
>>> routine course of business. Industry representatives, however, say 
>>> that if police respond to tips promptly instead of dawdling, it 
>>> would be difficult to imagine any investigation that would be 
>>> imperiled.
>>>
>>> It's not clear exactly what a data retention law would require. One 
>>> proposal would go beyond Internet providers and require registrars, 
>>> the companies that sell domain names, to maintain records too. And 
>>> during private meetings with industry officials, FBI and Justice 
>>> Department representatives have cited the desirability of also 
>>> forcing search engines to keep logs--a proposal that could gain 
>>> additional law enforcement support after AOL showed how useful such 
>>> records could be in investigations.
>>>
>>> A representative of the International Association of Chiefs of 
>>> Police said he was not able to provide a copy of the resolution.
>>>
>>> Preservation vs. retention
>>> At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log 
>>> file that's no longer required for business reasons such as network 
>>> monitoring, fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, 
>>> however, alter that general rule when contacted by police performing 
>>> an investigation--a practice called data preservation.
>>>
>>> A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional 
>>> Records Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet 
>>> providers to retain any "record" in their possession for 90 days 
>>> "upon the request of a governmental entity."
>>>
>>> Because Internet addresses remain a relatively scarce commodity, 
>>> ISPs tend to allocate them to customers from a pool based on whether 
>>> a computer is in use at the time. (Two standard techniques used are 
>>> the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and Point-to-Point Protocol 
>>> over Ethernet.)
>>>
>>> In addition, Internet providers are required by another federal law 
>>> to report child pornography sightings to the National Center for 
>>> Missing and Exploited Children, which is in turn charged with 
>>> forwarding that report to the appropriate police agency.
>>>
>>> When adopting its data retention rules, the European Parliament 
>>> approved U.K.-backed requirements saying that communications 
>>> providers in its 25 member countries--several of which had enacted 
>>> their own data retention laws already--must retain customer data for 
>>> a minimum of six months and a maximum of two years.
>>>
>>> The Europe-wide requirement applies to a wide variety of "traffic" 
>>> and "location" data, including: the identities of the customers' 
>>> correspondents; the date, time and duration of phone calls, VoIP 
>>> (voice over Internet Protocol) calls or e-mail messages; and the 
>>> location of the device used for the communications. But the 
>>> "content" of the communications is not supposed to be retained. The 
>>> rules are expected to take effect in 2008.
>>>
>>
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