[TriLUG] Where is Linux today?

[Ritesh Kumar]

I couldn't agree more with Tim and Maxwell. Mac OS X kinda did what we
expected Linux/X/KDE/Gnome to achieve about 2-4 years ago.

I think that there is only so much you can do with volunteer work. I really
don't think volunteers themselves can match the resources that Microsoft and
Apple have at their disposal. We *need* support from _hardware
manufacturers_ and _application developers_. The main reason that Linux
seems to be "winning" in embedded devices is that it is customizable, IMHO.
Its more because these companies can reuse a lot of Linux's codebase without
significantly hitting their business model (differentiating UI/ease of
use/cost) [Question: If my phone/toaster is linux based, can I really
configure it the way I can configure a desktop... the way Linux would
generally allow me to?]. Linux definitely is lagging behind in personal
computer technology... and I think its because people think of it as a low
cost alternative to a full fledged desktop rather than a good alternative.

I really think that there needs to be a way to differentiate between various
Linux variants (distros?) so that startups and companies can justify
spending money on the development of personal computing aspects of it. I
really think that going the freedesktop.org route of making interoperable
standards is more progressive in the Linux world than betting on either
Gnome or KDE -- in contrast to say the fixed UI models of Windows or Mac OS
X.

Don't you think our dreams would have come true if Apple chose Linux and the
freedesktop.org software stack to base its own UI? An alternative to Gnome
or KDE if you will. What if they invested into technology to run those
applications with native Gnome or KDE UIs on "lower cost" Desktop UI
alternatives? Don't you think you would have loved and paid Apple more that
way? The question then is, why hasn't it happened? I guess the answer really
lies in the "paid" part of the above argument ... or the "viability of a
company which supports such a development" part of the above argument.

Ritesh

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Tim Jowers <timjowers at gmail.com> wrote:

>   There's alot to say about marketing. I think Jobs did a great job
> marketing a desktop Unix. Who's doing so for Linux? Who will? They can win
> BIG!  Of course the low cost Linux laptops are a real threat. A real threat
> to the established pricing and software sets of today/yesteryear.  Let's
> get
> realistic here. People use computers to do something. Maybe write a
> document. Maybe track a spreadsheet. Maybe accounting. You can do these all
> with Open Source on Linux quite fine.
>
>   The Linux-focused companies such as Emperor were funded like $12M but
> unable to come up with solid technical innovations (zero time boot, unionfs
> to make all apps installed rather than needing to be installed, pull down
> apps locally as needed, integrated everything, integrated backups,
> integrated networkwork console, etc).  Maybe the tasks were too large or
> maybe they focused on the server market and the desktop/laptop market was
> an
> afterthought.
>
>   It's getting much much better. In '06 I did a several month study on the
> Open Source landscape. Its advancing fast. Linux is but one player. The GNU
> apps are others. Look at MySQL. Look at Subversion. Look at Firefox. Look
> at
> Open Office. Its a market progression where on one end we have apps like
> those that have and are dominating markets while in the middle we have apps
> developing their market share (mediawiki, phpBB, and the other portal apps)
> and at the very other end we have apps in a primordial soup out of which
> innovation grows. Will Gtk take over the desktop app development space?
> Etc.
> I'd love to make a market maturity line and put the universe of open source
> apps along that line.
>
>  I'd say Linux today shows far more promise for innovation than any other
> OS. That is the most important salient feature of Open Source to me.
>
>   There is also a deep point about the rate of adoption of innovation.
> Innovation is happening faster than most companies or people can adapt. I
> think that is the fundamental principal under your question. Jobs does a
> great job of packaging up innovation. No real Desktop Linux company exists.
> It inherently requires some tight integration with the hardware to make the
> best product. I think some VC's will eventually get onboard because I think
> the opportunity is very ripe to tightly integrate Linux with the hardware
> and make a better platform than even Apple and to also tightly integrate
> the
> open source with service provides to make a better solution than hosted
> apps
> can ever dream of making. Today, the VC understanding of the technology
> progression is a little behind those on this list, IMO/IME. But maybe they
> just haven't figured out the funding model. I watched the show about Google
> and it took them a few years and a copy of another company's funding model
> to figure out how to fund their search engine.
>
>    I love the point about the cell phones. The question is not which
> technology will win but the reality is all will win. The future is powerful
> compute devices everywhere and running all sorts of software.
>
>   Realistically, I think we'll see new computer users and special markets
> (low cost laptops:-) be the real inroads for Desktop Linux this year. It
> will be a few years before the mainstream gets off of Windows. I think the
> awesomeness of the Apple laptops is accelerating that move.
>
> TimJowers
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Cristóbal Palmer <
> cristobalpalmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Maxwell Spangler
> > <maxpublic08 at maxwellspangler.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > If those operating systems get their act together and keep growing,
> will
> > > Linux be limited in the future to servers, embedded uses and
> politically
> > > or technically motivated users that require free/open source software
> > > above all else?
> >
> > Who is missing from that list and why do you need them to use Linux?
> >
> > I'm serious. Let's pretend for a second that five years from now 60%
> > of US adults have a laptop that looks something like what a macbook
> > air looks like, and that it's either theirs or has been issued to them
> > solely for their use by their employer. Great, so now you've got about
> > 150k people with lightweight laptops in the US. Let's very generously
> > say that 20% of those run Linux: 30k lightweight linux laptops.
> > Awesome! But wait... the CURRENT generation of "free" cell phones from
> > the telcos take pictures and video, have bluetooth, fit in your
> > pocket, and EVERY adult has something better than that.... see where
> > I'm going here? What capabilities will that Linux laptop have (besides
> > a full-sized keyboard) that the phone doesn't?
> >
> > Interesting things happen when suddenly everyone you care about has a
> > capability (say, like having google maps and GPS on a device that fits
> > comfortably in a pocket). What capability or what network effect is
> > gained by having 30k Linux laptops that wasn't there with 3k Linux
> > laptops? My guess is that the impact would be minimal. That's not to
> > say I don't want to see Ubuntu and Fedora dramatically gain market
> > share--I do. What I'm saying is that if we want to put energy into the
> > growth of Linux, we should do so because it matches our goals.
> >
> > What are your goals? Do you want Linux to have a majority market share
> > on desktops for its own sake, or because you think there's something
> > philosophically wrong with the other OSs on the market? If the only
> > problems you see (or saw) in Windows and Mac OS are technical ones,
> > then you have little reason to contribute to the advancement of Linux.
> > If your goals are increased freedom, empowerment of the people,
> > fairness and justice....
> >
> > So... what are your goals? What are your reasons?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Cristóbal M. Palmer
> > "Small acts of humanity amid the chaos of inhumanity provide hope. But
> > small acts are insufficient."
> >  -- Paul Rusesabagina
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