[TriLUG] This is not good

[William Sutton]

Yeah.  The other thing that didn't help was how slowly it ran on even 
Solaris, let alone Linux.

William Sutton

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Michael Kimsal wrote:

> That's sort of what I figured.  Still, it didn't create a very good
> impression of 'java' for many linux newbs.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:12 AM, William Sutton <william at trilug.org> wrote:
>
>> OTOH, IIRC, open source efforts like gcj were trying to be Java compatible.
>>  Where Microsoft went wrong was in trying to hijack the Sun standard.  Also,
>> I don't think Sun is/was as scared of open source efforts as they were of a
>> company with a proven track record of taking other people's work and
>> breaking the standards in favor of their own proprietary version.
>>
>> William Sutton
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Michael Kimsal wrote:
>>
>>  Interestingly, though, Sun never 'went after' open source efforts (to my
>>> knowledge) like gcj.  The 'open source' java packages get bundled on linux
>>> distros to the point where you can type "java" on the command line and get
>>> something that sort of looks like Java, but doesn't run most packages.
>>> Perhaps things are a bit better these days, but I always thought that 'out
>>> of the box' experience did as much harm to the name 'Java' as anything MS
>>> ever did.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:01 AM, William Sutton <william at trilug.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  What happened was a case of Microsoft's SOP of embrace-and-extend.  They
>>>> licensed the right to package Java with their development tools, and then
>>>> proceeded to extend and change the API they published, even to the point
>>>> of
>>>> breaking the existing Sun API.  Sun sued, claiming they owned Java and
>>>> that
>>>> Microsoft couldn't just change the APIs and still call it Java. Microsoft
>>>> claimed (iirc) that anybody could use the language and so anyone should
>>>> be
>>>> able to do so.  The judge ruled in favor of Sun, so Microsoft took its
>>>> marbles and went home.  Presently they came back with C#, into which they
>>>> put the features they liked from Java, plus a few of their own.
>>>>
>>>> William Sutton
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Christopher L Merrill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Greg Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Didn't we already go round and round on this dance with J++ back in the
>>>>>> day?  Or was the problem with J++ was that MS was trying to
>>>>>> commercialize
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> fork of a open source project?  It was a while ago.. details are fuzzy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Java wasn't open source then. M$ licensed it and then allegedly violated
>>>>> the
>>>>> terms of the license.  MS called it Java, but it wasn't quite Java.  I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> remember the details beyond that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The pseudo-java being used in Android (Google, again) might also be
>>>>> considered a fork by some. Or the pre-cursor to one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -
>>>>> Chris Merrill                           |  Web Performance, Inc.
>>>>> chris at webperformance.com                |  http://webperformance.com
>>>>> 919-433-1762                            |  919-845-7601
>>>>>
>>>>> Website Load Testing and Stress Testing Software & Services
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Kimsal
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>
>
>
> --
> Michael Kimsal
> http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
> http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
> 919.827.4724
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