[TriLUG] iptables & FUD

[William Sutton]

Oh, I agree with you... I just want someone from the camp that likes to 
make these sorts of changes to defend why wholesale rearrangment of the 
standard UNIX tools and subsystems is a good idea....because I don't think 
it is, but clearly someone with more authority over what does (or doesn't) 
go into some generic Linux system seems to think so.

William Sutton

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, David Both wrote:

> That is the precise point; "old" does not mean obsolete, especially when 
> talking about Unix and GNU utilities that were designed with the Unix 
> philosophy in mind.
>
> If you don't know what the "Unix/Linux Philosophy" means, grasshopper, try 
> these links.
>
> http://read.pudn.com/downloads63/ebook/222048/Linux%20and%20the%20Unix%20Philosophy.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
>
>
>
> On 04/29/2013 11:42 AM, William Sutton wrote:
>> vim +1
>> 
>> that said, I'm sick of people changing (and/or deprecating) perfectly 
>> functional software just because they don't think it's "pretty" enough, or 
>> is organized the way they would do it.  See, in addition to the below 
>> example, the udev-197 changes, which completely hosed my PC for a week.
>> 
>> Yes, I get that sometimes things are obsolete, or the maintainer closed the 
>> source, or Oracle bought yet another tool, or (etc., etc., etc.).  But some 
>> things I just don't get.
>> 
>> William Sutton
>> 
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Aaron Joyner wrote:
>> 
>>> If you aspire to a career in system administration, or simply want to work
>>> with embedded systems, it is as important to know how to do things with
>>> 'netstat' and 'route' as it is to know which sexy features of 'vim' aren't
>>> supported in vanilla 'vi'.  When you deal with commercial unixes (unices?
>>> eg. Solaris, HPUX or AIX), you're likely to be dealing with the "classic"
>>> tools such as netstat, you certainly won't have the new-hotness of 
>>> iproute2
>>> (iprule is *right* *out*).  On an embedded linux distros (Montavista,
>>> anything with a busybox core, probably even the Rasberry Pi?), the first
>>> thing to go when space is at a premium are duplicate tools.  I have yet to
>>> find a developer that's favored dropped the classic tools over the
>>> new-shiny tools, although I suppose some day that's coming. Even when we
>>> cross that Rubicon, they're still likely to include a package equivalent 
>>> to
>>> Debian's vim-tiny rather than full-blown vim.  Typically, you can forget
>>> emacs (and as a general rule, you should).
>>> 
>>> Aaron S. Joyner
>>> (starts vi/emacs flame war on mailing list, goes to lunch)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 9:51 AM, John Vaughters 
>>> <jvaughters04 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Also agreed, I get frustrated with some of the newer tools that greatly
>>>> increase your typing. To the point that I start to wonder if I am on the
>>>> path of Grandpahood, where we curse all new and stick to all old 
>>>> schooling
>>>> those whipersnapers at every chance, only to one day to die a good John
>>>> Henry death by the true new technologies that you never saw coming.
>>>> 
>>>> The Cycle of Life!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: David Both <dboth at millennium-technology.com>
>>>> To: trilug at trilug.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [TriLUG] iptables & FUD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I find that many of the very oldest solutions are still the most elegant.
>>>> They
>>>> always have the advantage of simplicity, being written to work well with
>>>> limited
>>>> resources of all types, conforming (for the most part) to the Unix/Linux
>>>> philosophy, and having been thoroughly debugged over many years.
>>>> -- 
>>>> This message was sent to: Aaron S. Joyner <aaron at joyner.ws>
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>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> This message was sent to: William <william at trilug.org>
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>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *********************************************************
>>> David P. Both, RHCE
>>> Millennium Technology Consulting LLC
>>> 919-389-8678
>>> 
>>> dboth at millennium-technology.com
>>> 
>>> www.millennium-technology.com
>>> www.databook.bz - Home of the DataBook for Linux
>>> DataBook is a Registered Trademark of David Both
>>> 
> -- 
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>