[TriLUG] Recommendations for a systemd-less Linux distribution

Mon Jul 13 15:37:37 EDT 2015

> After upgrading to opensuse's systemd based distribution the system never
> boots smoothly and I need to wait for some stuff to timeout before it
> get to a login prompt.
I have gotten into the habit of minimizing upgrades of major versions of OS's in general. I usually create a new fresh install and reconfigure everything. This also acts as a cleaning mechanism to purge some lingering things that I meant to get rid of anyhow. Since I always keep the latest Fedora version on one computer, I have found that upgrading major versions, always casues issues. Of course Fedora is nothing more than a test bed for me, so I really do not care and fixing it is just my way of gaining education credits, so I would never recommend Fedora for anything production or you will suffer greatly. A newly installed system allows you to reconfigure and learn the differences along the way. I tend to believe it reduces my overall time, but there really is no possible way to verify. Just a hunch based on prior experience.
A fresh install and reconfigure should really solve most of these types of issues. It does require to have a few extra computers lying around to be able to test the configurations and then cut over once you have it all working.
Just a thought.
John Vaughters 

     On Monday, July 13, 2015 3:06 PM, MrB via TriLUG <trilug at trilug.org> wrote:

 Ditto the "no issues with systemd"  fedora 20 was good ... 21 as well, a
few oddities with 22 ... but none that needed reboot ... none to blame on
systemd

Brent R Brian
---------------------
Galaxy 5 mobile
On Jul 13, 2015 1:33 PM, "Paul Boyle via TriLUG" <trilug at trilug.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The short version:
> I am looking for recommendations (based on your experience) for
> systemd-less Linux distributions. Ideally, it would be an rpm based
> distro.  However, if no other options are available which fit these two
> criteria, I would consider another non-rpm based distro. The important
> thing is that systemd and all of its infections of other software
> must not be present. I am familiar with the http://without-systemd.org
> website. I've read through some of Steve Litt's writings on his
> efforts in getting a systemd free system.  I don't know if I could do
> the same with opensuse (my current distribution).
>
> So far, I am considering either VectorLinux or PCLinuxOS.  The only
> problem is that they don't appear to be rpm based distros.
>
> In any case, thanks in advance for any guidance or suggestions.
>
> Paul
>
>
> #######
> Longer version: (a little bit of a rant, I guess -- N.B. I know that
> the Linux community has fought the systemd wars, I'm not looking to
> restart one, but I feel the need to vent, given my frustration level)
>
> I'm not an IT professional like most of the people one this list, but
> I've been using Linux for scientific computing since around 1992. I've
> also used it for my personal computing since that time as well. I went
> to Linux because I wanted a low cost computing environment which was
> more stable than and more capable than DOS and Windows. For most of the
> last 23 years I've been pretty happy.  Linux provided a faster (less
> bloated), more stable environment for scientific computing. Up until
> recently, I've gotten this from Linux distros I've used (SLS,
> slackware, redhat, suse, opensuse).
>
> I've noticed since opensuse started using systemd as its default boot
> system, my workstations have gotten less stable, more sluggish, if not
> downright unresponsive in certain situations and needed a reboot. In the
> days before systemd, I've had instrument control Linux boxes up running
> continuously for over 300 days.  As far as I can tell, systemd  (or
> maybe systemd in conjunction with recent versions of KDE) has put an
> end to Linux as a stable computing platform. From what I've read,
> systemd just hasn't replaced init, but has infected more and more
> subsystems used in Linux.  In fact, using opensuse's YaST tool, I
> looked at the packages which were dependent somehow on systemd.  There
> were well over a hundred. (under opensuse, apache is dependent on
> systemd, WTF?) It has gotten to the point where the level of
> instability is no longer acceptable to me, and I need to explore
> alternatives.
>
> From what I've read systemd's initial virtue seemed to be that the
> system booted faster.  I guess that's OK for people who are used to
> rebooting their machines a lot, but traditionally, that's not something
> I've had to do with Linux and it's not that is important to me.  I want
> snappy response times and stability. systemd systems, in my experience,
> do not deliver in this regard.
>
> In my experience, systemd systems don't necessarily boot faster
> anyway. As an example, in my lab, there is a student data
> processing workstation which is both an NFS client and NFS server. After
> upgrading to opensuse's systemd based distribution the system never
> boots smoothly and I need to wait for some stuff to timeout before it
> get to a login prompt. Then I have to go in kill a bunch of hung
> 'mount' processes, start the nfs client and nfs server services (using
> systemctl) and then do a 'mount -a'.  As far as I can tell the hang
> comes that systemd starts crond before nfs. In my configuration, the
> nfs client services need to be started first. I've tried to figure this
> out some, but the relevant systemd configuration files are hard to find
> (whatever happened to putting config files under /etc?). I've gotten to
> the point, where even if I could figure out the problem, I'm not sure I
> want to.  I don't want to do anything that would encourage more systemd
> use. I don't want to silently accept the systemd crap which is getting
> shoved down my throat now by major distro providers. Systemd seems to
> be a project designed to Microsoft-ize Linux. This not a good thing.
>
> After telling graduate students and faculty about how rock stable Linux
> is, it has been a little bit of a personal and professional
> embarrassment to have these boot time hangs, as well as sluggish or
> crashing software, and sluggish desktops.  I went to Linux to get away
> from this behaviour.
>
> If I could, I would probably migrate my lab to some *BSD flavour.
> However, the vendor who supplies the (expensive) scientific instruments
> in my lab has done a Linux port.  I would rather use their Linux port
> than their Windows version.
>
> Paul
>
>
> --
> Paul D. Boyle, Ph. D.
> Manager, X-ray Facility
> Department of Chemistry
> Western University
> London, ON N6A 5B7
> Canada
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