rhce-log-030226.txt

-!- ovrclokd [~lisa@moya.trilug.org] has joined #trilug-rhce -!- Topic for #trilug-rhce: TriLUG RHCE Study Group - Next meeting Wed, Feb 26th, 8pm, online right here in IRC -!- Topic set by jeremyp [] [Thu Feb 20 11:23:54 2003] [Users #trilug-rhce] [@ChanServ ] [ jimstigator] [ ovrclokd] [ sweeper] [ jeremyp_away] [ jtower ] [ Sinner_ ] [ tanner ] -!- Irssi: #trilug-rhce: Total of 8 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal] -!- Channel #trilug-rhce created Wed Feb 5 19:49:24 2003 -!- Irssi: Join to #trilug-rhce was synced in 0 secs < jtower> Sinner_: do all of your ltsp clients run without a hard drive installed? -!- clotman [~clotman@moya.trilug.org] has joined #trilug-rhce < ovrclokd> greetings, programs! :) < Sinner_> jtower: some have one, some have none. They just are "ignoring" the local HDD < Sinner_> howdy ovrclokd < clotman> hello all < Sinner_> hello clotman < sweeper> I think we can get started ... Sinner, are you running tonight's show? < Sinner_> sweeper: I can try * Sinner_ officialy greets everybody present < Sinner_> did everybody attended to Jason's talk at EclecticLAN? < sweeper> yep (for me) < Sinner_> +1 < clotman> not me < jtower> i was there but didn't really pay attention < Sinner_> clotman: then, you might want to check the notes here: http://cerient.net/rhce/ < Sinner_> jtower: very funny < jtower> lisa, did you ever add your notes? < Sinner_> clotman: and the syllabus for the whole thig is here: http://www.trilug.org/~sinner/rhce.html < Sinner_> both websites should be links-friendly < Sinner_> Last Wednesday, jtower gave us a presentation on RedHat 8.0 installation -!- sholton [~sholton@sdn-ar-012ncraleP323.dialsprint.net] has joined #trilug-rhce -!- jtate [~jtate@rdu74-181-041.nc.rr.com] has joined #trilug-rhce < ovrclokd> jtower: haven't yet. i was hoping to tonight, but got distracted by food. < sweeper> sinner: I don't think ovrclokd has posted them, yet < jtower> food, my favorite! < sholton> Food: first order of business < jtower> everyone should be eating chinese take out right now < jtower> that way it *feels* like we're at ecleticlan < jtate> I just had ribeye steaks. Is that ok? * Sinner_ is having glorified chesse ans crackers < ovrclokd> jtate: ooh, rub it in, why don't you. * ovrclokd had rabbit food tonight - tasty rabbit food, but nothing like a ribeye. < jtate> With biscuits and baked potatoes. < Sinner_> sweeper: at least, we have jtower original notes + the syllabus < sholton> I ate chicken earlier, but at least I grew it myself. < jtower> Sinner_: hey, don't distract us from our dinner conversation < Sinner_> better a rabit than rabbit food < Sinner_> :P < jtate> I had rabbit once. It was really good. < jtate> Actually I had it twice. < jtate> Papa's grill on Guess road serves a mean rabbit. < jtower> i may have to pick up the missus from work before too long, so if anyone has any particular questions fire away < Sinner_> excellent with jambalaya-style rice * sweeper had the rabbit foor ovrclokd made < Sinner_> ok guys, jtower won't be long here. < jtate> Has anyone tried the kickstart using RH 8.0.94? < sholton> To answer a question from the meet-up: the text mode install is NOT identical to the graphical install. There's a lot of stuff mentioned in the release notes concerning things which only work in graphical install mode. < sweeper> jtate: isn't Papa's Grill on Hillandale? < jtower> i'm trying it tomorrow < jtate> Yeah. That's the place. < jtower> sholton: such as? < Sinner_> jtate: how different is it? < jtate> Andalusian rabbit is what it's called. < sholton> all the LVM stuff. Moving whole partitions to RAID, etc. < sweeper> what is the ".94" on RH 8.0.94? I hadn't seen that verion until today < Sinner_> sweeper: this is a beta for 8.1 < jtate> That's the beta. < jtower> rh betas always seem to use the .94 nomenclature < sholton> Those are the ones I've noticed. I can't install in graphical mode, so I only knoe about things that WON'T work... < sweeper> Sinner_: ah, I see. thanks. < Sinner_> sweeper: you'll see that public betas are [$prior_version].9x < clotman> sholton: I recently did three text installs and didn't see options for LVM < ovrclokd> so, my install lesson for today is: always install gnome, whether you think you want it or not! < jtate> As I believe Jeremy posted: the bootnet.img doesn't exist anymore. -!- ggw [~ggw@durham-ar1-4-64-251-166.durham.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #trilug-rhce * Sinner_ suggests that, if encountered with an install scenario that requires LVM or RAID, go straight to GUI install < jtate> You can create LVM partitions, but you can't create LVM volumes in 8.0 < jtower> you start5ed quite a thread lisa! < jtate> I couldn't get 8.0 to install on my hardware. I have a stupid PDC20276 pseudo raid card. < sholton> And what does Sinner suggest if you are "degraded" back to a text-mode install? < sholton> s/you/one/ < ovrclokd> jtower: it's been... educational. :) thanks for your insights... < Sinner_> sholton: RHCE are known to be hard tests, not "tricksy" tests < jtate> I'd suggest: Do LVM post install. < jtower> ovrclokd: im sure i didn't tell you anything you didn't already know < jtate> just leave space for it. -!- ggw is now known as RedWolfe < clotman> jtate: Question. Can I use ext3 if I want to go the LVM route? Or do I need ReiserFS? < Sinner_> jtate: rememeber: time given in the test is limited < jtower> rh doesn't support reiser during installation < Sinner_> clotman: you can use anything, although RedHat will default on ext3 < jtate> I think that reiserfs has better partition resizing options. < ovrclokd> jtower: actually, i didn't realize apt-rpm would pull dependencies, too. that's my project for tomorrow night. :) < Sinner_> clotman: ext3 is RedHat "standard" filesystem < sweeper> clotman: AFAIK, you can use whatever fs you want. definitely not limited to ReiserFS. < Sinner_> jtate: maybe. but it doesn't have full RedHat Blessings < jtate> 8.1 beta seemed to support something other than ext3 though. I don't remember which. < sholton> jtate: then we;ll need to go over LVM post-install at some point, i figure. < clotman> thank you both for the info < sweeper> there is some journaling fs that RH doesn't support out of the box. is that Rieser? or XFS? -!- ccw [~ccw@durham-ar1-4-64-251-166.durham.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #trilug-rhce < Sinner_> jtate: remember, this test is for *RedHat-Linux*, not Linux < jtower> i'm gonna play with phoebe at the installfest if i get a chance < jtower> maybe i should rephrase that... < jtate> Don't worry about it. It's sad, but we know what you meant. < RedWolfe> Journaling is Ext3 (same as Reiser?) < jtate> Ext3 is journaling. Reiser also has journalling. < Sinner_> RedWolfe: both ext3 and ReiserFS have journaling < jtate> I can't spell though. < jtower> there are four major journaling filesystems: ext3, reiser, jfs, and xfs < RedWolfe> but I gues that ext3 is not the same as Reiser? < sholton> jtate: (speling not a RHCE requirement, from what I hear...) < jtate> sholton: look over the LVM howto at tldp.org. < jtower> no, they are not compatible with each other < jtate> sholton: that's good to know. < Sinner_> RedWolfe: it is different... but, in the end, works the same < Sinner_> RedWolfe: just rememeber that ext3 is the default and RedHat's way < jtower> http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html < jtower> http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html < jtate> The different filesystems: XFS, ReiserFS, ext3 are useful under different scenarios. < jtower> very long, boring, technical article about filesystems < Sinner_> jtower: I have right now ReiserFS and ext3 filesstems living together noprob < jtower> sure, you can use them together at the same time but each has independent kernel modules < Sinner_> and, at least on 7.3, you cannot get /boot with ReiserFS and expect it to boot unless you do some compiling < jtate> I've heard good things about XFS for postgresql. < Sinner_> jtower: that's right < jtower> you can't mount a reiser filesystem as ext3 and expect it to work < jtate> I mean as a general database filesystem. < jtower> from what i understand, reiser excels at desling with lots of small files < jtower> and xfs is ideal for very large, scalable filesystems < Sinner_> jtate: they all have strenghts and weaknesses. In a real world, you pick whatever will work better for you. In the test, I guess that ext3 is the only way to go < jtate> ext3 seems to be pretty good at most things. < jtower> as far as RH is concerned, ext3 is the way to go 99% of the time < sholton> Did anyone find a *good* reference on kickstart commands? Something that's likely to be authoritative across each new release? < Sinner_> a good thing about ext3 is that is "ext2-compatible", so your old recovery FDD/CD will save your butt in case of emergency < jtate> I asked about the phoebe ks because I haven't had a chance to try it quite yet. < Sinner_> sholton: across each release? you gotta be kiding me < jtower> sholton: if you find one, send it to me < RedWolfe> Phoebe has some intteresting twistts in the install. < Sinner_> sholton: kickstart is evolving and changing with every release, so it's a moving target, even for RedHatDocs team < Sinner_> RedWolfe: can you provide us with some examples? < sholton> As a side note, I'm looking to see if I can use a kickstart file to setup a LVM install for a host which can't do a (graphical) interactive install. < sholton> I'm willing to try just about anything... < RedWolfe> Well, there is only one boot.img and a drvnet.img that would be required for NFS install < Sinner_> interesting < jtower> sholton: that should work, i think anaconda can understand the inputs regardless of what mode it's in < jtate> The boot.iso seems to be the thing to work with for phoebe. < RedWolfe> Anaconda is a bit slower, but not too bad. THey've dropped pine < jtower> no pine! AHHHHHHHHH! < Sinner_> RedWolfe: from the rpm list? < jtower> i'm *not* going back to vi < jtower> no fscking way < Sinner_> jtower: get RH 8.0 SRPM and compile it under PHoebe. It Should Work (tm) < jtate> Yep. It's gone. < Sinner_> jtower: use mcedit < ovrclokd> how rude! < sweeper> jtate: as long as you have a new machine with a bootable CD-ROM ... which are most from the last 5+ years < jtower> i think pine was released under a non-free license < RedWolfe> yes, "licensing" issues accordint ot the Release Notes < jtower> GNU nano is even better though < jtower> has search/replace < Sinner_> IIRC, pine hasn't been in Mandrake for a while < sweeper> ovrclokd: maybe that'll get you to switch to mutt * sweeper ducks < RedWolfe> mutt is a *dog* < jtower> sweeper: i only use it for pico, but i'll take a swing at you anyway <whiff> < ccw> Pine is U Washington. Didn't RedHat want to jump through their hoops? < Sinner_> ccw: I think that you are right < jtate> Redistribution of this release is permitted as follows, or by mutual agreement: < jtate> (a) In free-of-charge or at-cost distributions by non-profit concerns; < jtate> (b) In free-of-charge distributions by for-profit concerns; < jtate> (c) Inclusion in a CD-ROM collection of free-of-charge, shareware, or non-proprietary software for which a fee may be charged for the packaged distribution. * ovrclokd will give up pine when they pry it out of her cold, dead... distro? < jtower> ovrclokd: try nano. seriously, you'll never know the difference < sweeper> RedWolfe: you running with imap? < RedWolfe> not yet, phoebe is on othe machine < Sinner_> ok < Sinner_> shall we go back to the meeting? < jtower> <homer> boring! < Sinner_> ok < Sinner_> so text and GUI are a little bit different < sholton> Are we likely to be seeing phoebe as a release before we take the RHCE test? < Sinner_> GUI better for LVM and RAID < jtate> quick ? loopback mount? What're the options. < sholton> Sinner_: GUI *ONLY* for LVM and RAID < Sinner_> sholton: maybe. Although I don't think that they will base the exam in a just released distro < sholton> loopback -o loop < Sinner_> sholton: OK. < jtate> sholton: I think so. < Sinner_> jtate: mount -t loop phoebe-blah-blah.iso /mnt/isos/ < Sinner_> then, ext3 is the filesystem to use < Sinner_> and kickstart is a moving target, so keep your notes in sync with the distribution in use < jtate> got it. < Sinner_> also, remember that ftp and http installs only have text-install mode available < jtower> note: some kickstart commands are required, some are optional < sweeper> NFS and CD are the ones that support GUI < jtower> but again, it's a moving target < RedWolfe> ftp and http require unpacked RPMs, NFS can use images! < Sinner_> when you install RedHat, you get a kickstart file at /root/ < jtower> RedWolfe: how does anaconda know where to find the second and third CD images? < Sinner_> sweeper: are you sure that isos-on-your-disks do not provide GUI install? < RedWolfe> it presumes there in the same directory as the first iso < Sinner_> jtower: just have them together < sholton> must also guess at the names, too. < jtate> HD installs should also support GUI installs. < sweeper> Sinner_: don't know. I suspect hard disk install (aka isos on disk) would be GUI, too < RedWolfe> HD install still looks text mode < Sinner_> sweeper: that's my point. IIRC, HDD installs support GUI < sweeper> Sinner_: yep. and I don't know the answer. RedWolfe says it "still looks text mode" < Sinner_> mmm < Sinner_> I'll need a disk with images to know for sure < sholton> If the graphical install fails, it falls (should) back into text-mode install < Sinner_> who hasn't isntalled RedHat 8.0 yet? < sholton> ...or crash... < RedWolfe> I tried HDD when installing 8.0 and it forced me to text mode, haven't tried with 8.1 < sweeper> Sinner_: I haven't. it's on my todo list, FWIW < Sinner_> sweeper: do it several times, so you get familiar with screens and available options < ccw> I did NFS. Foud DRUID is really good at rearranging where my partitions go ... < sholton> I've spent better part of a week trying to get a clean RH 8.0 image installed under vmWare and BOCHS. < Sinner_> ccw: exactly. My advice: trust DiskDruid < Sinner_> anyone has any queston on LVM or RAID? < ccw> I wanted RAID1 for /boot and it moved the RAID partition ... < jtower> ccw: i've noticed that behavior too < jtower> not sure why. of course it still works, but it just doesn't *look* as nice < Sinner_> ccw: I understand that this is to make sure that /boot/vmlinuz falls in the starting area of the disk < sholton> jtower: looks? and you call yourself a geek... < ccw> I faked it out by using /tmp2 /usr2 and then used "edit" to rename. Things stayed where I put 'em hehehe < ccw> Sinner_: it moved it AFTER /tmp and /usr ... < RedWolfe> sholton: yes *looks* (as in elegant) < jtower> sholton: no, everyone *else* calls me a geek < Sinner_> that's wierd < RedWolfe> Sinner_: yes it *is* wierd. did it consistently too < ccw> Sinner_: no not wierd. Programmed behavior is just plain stupid ... < Sinner_> RedWolfe: have you visited https://bugzilla.redhat.com ? < RedWolfe> not yet < Sinner_> ccw: I call "stupid programmed behaviours" a bug < ccw> Sinner_: you're probably right ... < Sinner_> been there, done that < Sinner_> disclaimer: i've been qa engineer at RH < jtate> What was the ks option for confirmation at every step? < sholton> interactive < ccw> Sinner_: try it yourself. It also crashed (hung) six times before RedWolfe and I got it to work ... < Sinner_> then it's a bug < ccw> Sinner_: not a feature? < clotman> Will this section of the test include kudzu? < RedWolfe> feeping creaturism! < sholton> Sinner: no, not a feature. If I wanted it to crash *by design* I'd run Windows. < Sinner_> clotman: maybe < Sinner_> clotman: kudzu starts by default, and it will detect and (attempt ) to reconfigure new/changed hadware < ccw> one for sholton. Back to class? < jtower> what does kudzu compare detected hardware against to see what has been added/removed? < clotman> /etc/sysconfig/hwconf ? < Sinner_> jtower: check out /etc/hardware/ (IIRC) < jtower> something in /etc/sysconfig? < Sinner_> or something like that < Sinner_> it hasa list of devices detected last boot < Sinner_> it's a smart way of diff lastbot.dmesg dmesg < Sinner_> sometimes, the soundcard doesn't get detected on install, but kudzu picks it up on first boot < sholton> Are there any other parts of the install (language selection, firewalling, package selection, etc) that we need to cover in as much detail as LVM? < jtower> yeah, that happens a lot on my systems < jtower> it's all in the customization guide < jtower> but it would be impossible to memorize < Sinner_> sholton: one thing about languages < sholton> do tell... < jtower> basically, just remember that order counts, and if it's not in the ks file you will be prompted < Sinner_> the default language on your system will be the one that you picked during install < Sinner_> and you can install additional languages during install noproblem < jtower> the first entry is usually lang=eng_US * sweeper looks in /etc/sysconfig and find /etc/sysconfig/hwconf < Sinner_> cool < RedWolfe> lang=en_US.UTF8 ! < jtower> followed by langsupport= < sholton> is there any way to change that post-install? < sweeper> jtomer: it's actually lang=en_US (just debugged locale stuff on Linux and Solaris this past week) < jtower> DON'T use langsupport=default or else it will install support for ALL languages < Sinner_> sholton: yes. just edit it < Sinner_> jtower: that's in Kickstart, isn't it? < jtower> Sinner_: yes, in ks.cfg or whatever < Sinner_> jtower: just to clarify < jtower> i kept wondering why my installs were so huge * Sinner_ advises against installing in Spanish language, as UTF-8 + RedHat-RPM-Manager is broken < jtower> the old rh72 docs say to use the =default flag < clotman> the only thing worse than no documentation is incorrect documentation. < Sinner_> clotman: or documentation of a work-in-progress like kickstart < jtower> RedWolfe: does using lang=en.US.UTF8 solve the font problem in kde with wierd characters? < ccw> ... but that's what the source is for ... :) < Sinner_> jtower: maybe you need to selet different fonts < RedWolfe> sort of. The real cure is to adjust the sysfont < Sinner_> jtower: on kde control center < jtower> Sinner_: where specifically do i change this? < Sinner_> jtower: in KDE control center, look 'n'feel , fonts < jtower> Sinner_: all i see there are size and font style < Sinner_> jtower: that's it. some fonts are not good under utf-8, others are no good with anti-aliasing and so on < jtower> which font works best? i don;t care about AA < jtower> i just want konsole to display man pages correctly < Sinner_> jtower: konsole is a different beast < Sinner_> jtower: it uses it's own fonts. try: "unicode" < sweeper> so ... do we have any more Q&A on hardware and installation? < sholton> last one: what's a good recommendation for a video card that's likely to be supported for the near term? < Sinner_> sholton: regular ATI < jtower> ATI < RedWolfe> ATI Radeon < Sinner_> works out-of-the-box on RedHat installs < jtate> Matrox cards are good too. < sholton> sounds like a consensus < Sinner_> and the drivers are part of XFree project < ovrclokd> +1 matrox < jtower> i'd suggest getting an old voodoo2 card < jtower> if you can get that working, you can pass the exam easily < Sinner_> Matrox are ery nice 2D cards, although a little pricey for Sinners & Jokers budgets < RedWolfe> Any ideas what sort of troubleshooting we'll be exposed to? < jtower> friend of mine is using two dual head matrox cards to drive four displays < jtower> says it works great < jtower> RedWolfe: probably boot process errors < Sinner_> RedWolfe: for install? < RedWolfe> yes and yes < jtower> brub/lilo issues, filesystems problems, inconsistent /etc/fstab < Sinner_> one thing that comes to mind is the need for the drivers floppy on install < Sinner_> or configuring X on a text system < sholton> jtower: inconsistent /etc/fstab: what's the command to re-label a partition? < jtate> label < jtate> Or at least I thought it was. < jtower> i've had several cases with rh8 where X didn't work and redhat-config-xfree didn't work either < Sinner_> also, get used to the rescue mode available on RedHat Install CD-1 < jtower> i dislike that strongly, at least the old Xconfigurator was reliable < RedWolfe> e2label < sholton> RedWolfe: thx. < Sinner_> a good thing can be install on hda, move hda to hdb, and then... troubleshoot that! < sholton> linux root=/dev/hdb < jtower> quick tip: learn to use fdisk and parted. both can save you in emergency cases where you don't know how a disk is partitioned < jtower> or the partitions need to be changed < jtate> Anyone know how to make a bootable CD? < jtower> i gotta run guys, catch you at the installfest??? < clotman> cya jtower < jtate> Thanks for your help. < Sinner_> jtower: I can't! I'm on call this weekend :/ < Sinner_> good night jtower! < RedWolfe> ttfn JTower < RedWolfe> fdisk -l gives a quit printout of partitions < RedWolfe> jtate: theres an option in burning that allows you to specify a 1.44 floppy image to be used as a boot sector < RedWolfe> <hello?> < Sinner_> RedWolfe: to do that, maybe you want to use gcombust < jtate> is that better than gtoaster? < Sinner_> RedWolfe: it has an area to define the "El torito" extensions that will let you specify a boot image < RedWolfe> xcdroast gives a GUI interface and you can spec an image < jtate> So for phoebe: which boot image do I specify? Bootdisk.img? < Sinner_> jtate: I like better than gtoaster. But it's me. Usualy, for plain dumb things, I use arson. For more elaborate images, I use gcombust < RedWolfe> all the burner programs have an equivalent option < sholton> anyone ever use a GRUB password? is it as straightforward as it sounds? < Sinner_> RedWolfe: if they support eltorito extendions. some are too simple and have no clue about it < Sinner_> sholton: yes, yes < jtate> shoton: yes. < RedWolfe> Sinner_: true, but we are talking geek here aren't we? < Sinner_> sholton: but then, you better have a boot floppy if you forget it < Sinner_> RedWolfe: I talk pragmatism < sholton> I presume you can recover from the forgotten pw using a rescue disk? < sholton> edit /boot/grub/grub.conf? < Sinner_> yes, if you have boot from floppy enabled < Sinner_> Yes, I think < Sinner_> although I've never done it < jtate> anyone seen this: < Sinner_> try it yourself and let us know < jtate> [root@www isolinux]# xcdroast < jtate> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server < jtate> Xlib: No protocol specified < jtate> Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 < sholton> agreed. < Sinner_> jtate: yes < jtate> sholton: that's all you should need to do. < Sinner_> jtate: xcdroast cannot start on default display < jtate> Why not? < clotman> jtate: won't "xhost +" fix that? < Sinner_> X server refused the connection < Sinner_> clotman: this is a dangerous thing to do < jtate> gtoaster just worked. < RedWolfe> xhost +local: (note the colon) allows local access < Sinner_> Sinner_: how did you get to be root there? < jtate> xcdroast doesn't just work. < sweeper> jtate: is X running as root? if not, xhost + as the owning user to open it up (or figure out X authentication to allow just root access ... I've known how to do that in the past) < RedWolfe> jtate: xcdroast "just works" for me < Sinner_> jtate: have you updated your system? I know of some issues with xcdroast about 4 months ago < sweeper> I'm going to wander off. I've a log of all this that I'll get to Lisa for the web page < RedWolfe> (the rh8.0 install does seem to uyse some og the gnome helper interface) < jtate> well, I use yum, so I'm assuming I've got the latest 7.3 release. < jtate> I'll work on it later. < jtate> I'm going to head off. My brain is hurting. < jtate> G'night all. < Sinner_> sweeper: ok, I havea log also, if it's needed < Sinner_> ok < Sinner_> good nmight everybody < Sinner_> I'm leaving too < clotman> nite nite < ovrclokd> g'night all! < Sinner_> $ date < Sinner_> Wed Feb 26 21:30:08 EST 2003 Generated by irclog2html.pl 2.1 by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net!