18:31:51 <raub> #startmeeting
18:31:51 <Tribot> Meeting started Mon Feb  1 18:31:51 2021 UTC.  The chair is raub. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:31:51 <Tribot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:32:15 <raub> #chair bdmc jeoff noway2
18:32:15 <Tribot> Current chairs: bdmc jeoff noway2 raub
18:32:31 <raub> #topic 1. Check for Agenda Additions
18:32:35 <raub> Anyone?
18:32:44 <jeoff> Yeah
18:33:02 <jeoff> CVE-2021-3156
18:33:11 <raub> Oh yeah
18:33:46 <jeoff> We work on a shared system with public ssh, so it is a bit worrying
18:34:05 <raub> Yes. Only solution is to update
18:34:15 <raub> Unless we want to backport
18:34:20 <raub> (doable)
18:34:30 <jeoff> Yeah. Do you think our version of Debian has support for this patch?
18:35:03 <raub> I think Debian, yes. It is still as supported version. Ubuntu (pilot), nope
18:35:04 <noway2> Maybe, Moya (debian) is a bit outdated, but not as outdated as Pilot. It might be available.
18:36:42 <jeoff> Cool. I'll look into that CVE this week. That brings me into another topic. Is it worth putting our work in Ansible Playbooks on an external git repo somewhere?
18:37:06 <raub> noway2: do you want to check if you can update moya's sudo?
18:37:36 <raub> jeoff: if there is nothing confidential in the playbooks, I am cool with that
18:37:56 <noway2> I can look into that.  Speaking of which, I sent you an email.... I forget the ipv4 port for Moya since my work connection doesn't have ipv6.
18:37:59 <raub> confidential == not only pw, but info on our infra
18:38:21 <raub> noway2: Hmmm, didn't see that email
18:38:39 <noway2> spam bucket, probably.
18:38:42 <raub> But, 'ssh -p 622 raubvogel@moya.trilug.org"
18:39:04 <bdmc> jeoff: Why an external git repo, not the TriLUG Steering one?
18:39:50 <jeoff> Uptime guarentees mostly
18:40:12 <jeoff> Not saying Trilug Steering git isn't good, but it probably makes sense to keep patches on a different box
18:40:26 <bdmc> A third box?
18:40:41 <raub> jeoff: trilug's git is not on moya/pilot
18:42:22 <jeoff> raub: ah, then git is already external. Thoughts on playbooks?
18:43:21 <raub> jeoff: meaning? I run my two home vmhosts and a bunchof other clients though ansible
18:43:38 <raub> In fact, let me push an upgrade
18:44:54 <jeoff> Using playbooks to manage patches
18:45:00 <jeoff> and other interesting config state
18:45:28 <raub> I having nothing against that. As I said, I do that at home. And even at work
18:46:24 <raub> Right now I am adding Debian support to my playbook to deploy a kvm and/or docker server
18:46:58 <raub> (I am going to conver vmhost1 from centos to debian)
18:47:46 <raub> So, preaching to choir from where I stand
18:48:23 <bdmc> You guys are much more DevOps than I am.  I am mostly Dev, with a bit of SysAdmin thrown in.
18:48:45 <raub> bdmc: No, I am extremely lazy
18:51:01 <jeoff> I'll start looking into ansible playbook stuff. That's all I have
18:55:08 <raub> Shall we move on
18:55:20 <noway2> yes.
18:55:26 <bdmc> I have no objections.
18:56:01 <raub> #topic 2. Current Topics
18:57:19 <raub> I talked to Dwain earlier today. He said he will have a blurb the end of the day
18:57:47 <raub> But, I will prepare plan B in case that does not happen; I do not want to wait until next week
19:00:07 <raub> Plan B will be showing how to use KVM and virtualbox, and compare that a bit
19:00:56 <raub> This is based on what was mention in last meeting and something that may be useful to noway2
19:01:28 <noway2> I was just thinking that... actually I am starting to get the VM thing... and poking around on Moya right now.
19:01:37 <raub> Cool
19:03:15 <raub> Anyway, that is the plan
19:03:44 <raub> #topic 3. Future Topics
19:04:24 <raub> jeoff should be giving the March meeting. Let me know when you have the blurb and bio
19:04:34 <raub> After that we have nothing.
19:06:01 <noway2> I am going to reach out to Kevin / Nivex... is he still at all active?
19:06:02 <bdmc> Hmmm.  Another History of Linux Roundtable?  History of Unix?  Introduction to the Command Line?
19:06:24 * raub shrugs. noway2 I dunno
19:06:25 <bdmc> I think so.  He has attended at least a couple of the meetings lately.
19:06:56 <bdmc> Like Alan, who we haven't seen in person for quite a while.
19:07:15 <raub> But we think they exist
19:07:34 <raub> We do need to ask on the list for speakers. Who wants to do that?
19:07:52 <raub> And ping some of our old speakers
19:07:59 <bdmc> Either that, or they have been really advancing in AI, because they have sent very realistic avatars to our meetings.
19:08:39 <raub> As the mice has shown, all you need is a simple electronic brain
19:08:48 <raub> s/has/have
19:09:47 <raub> In any case I would be more comfortable if we had another 2-3 speakers
19:10:26 <noway2> I just sent a message to the linux-ham list trying to ping Nivex.  The email I had is several years old, so I thought I would try that apporach.
19:10:34 <raub> Other topics are: virtualization, containers
19:10:48 <raub> (topics for talks)
19:11:07 <raub> I really would like to have something hands-on
19:11:07 <bdmc> noway2: his e-mail address hasn't changed in decades, like mine.
19:11:36 <bdmc> raub: full-out "play-along" work session?
19:11:38 <raub> that make people create thingies that are put together. Like a homework or something
19:12:03 <raub> bdmc: something like that. Can take multiple sessions or continue online or whatver
19:12:27 <bdmc> Could be interesting, and fun.
19:12:34 <noway2> What about something dealing with secure messaging?  That seems to be a hot topic in the circles I frequent these days. Is there anything linux related to that?
19:12:44 <raub> Something that feels like a real project the participants can then use it at home or as experience
19:13:47 <bdmc> noway2: What kind of secure messaging?  WhatsApp?
19:13:50 <raub> noway2: it depends on what kind of secure messaging you want. It can be as simple as a tunnel. And then you can add encryption, such as encryped mail
19:13:53 <bdmc> or something else?
19:14:06 <bdmc> SSH is another option?
19:14:06 <raub> Thent here is secure chatting, like signal (open source)
19:14:42 <noway2> Something else. There seem to be more and more apps creeping up, like Session (similar to signal) that use onion routing and a few other features.
19:15:14 <bdmc> Something else relevant to today's world, might be a comparison of meeting tools -- Zoom, JitSi, Google Meet, etc.
19:16:00 <raub> bdmc: I could not give that talk. It would be too short: zoom sucks, google spies.
19:16:39 <noway2> Go To Meeting seems to be what the security concious use, but it don't run on Linux.
19:16:45 <bdmc> Well, then we could go on and talk all about the wonderfullness of Microsoft!   B-)
19:18:08 <raub> noway2: I did not know go to meeting still exists. I do not know who in the security community uses it unless a client demands it
19:18:36 <raub> gotomeeting is like facebook: ancient
19:18:58 <bdmc> Doesn't "everybody" use Facebook?
19:19:06 <raub> irc is not secure but it is resilient because it is not a walled garden like, say, slack
19:19:50 <bdmc> I have friends who use Telegram.
19:20:00 <bdmc> ( I think that that's the name. )
19:20:36 <raub> Yep
19:20:46 <bdmc> And then there is something called, if I remember correctly, Big Blue Button????
19:20:46 <raub> noway2: in any case, it is a valid topic
19:21:06 <raub> I think that is like a class thingie
19:21:47 <bdmc> Something like a Zoom or meet.jit.si replacement.
19:22:18 <raub> https://bigbluebutton.org/
19:23:23 <noway2> Yeah. thats a school app.
19:24:49 <raub> I still would like to see when we will be ready to run our own jitsi instance
19:25:55 <raub> Anywhoo, keep coming up with ideas for talks
19:26:21 <raub> We can put them in https://steering.trilug.org/wiki/index.php/UpcomingMeetings
19:26:34 <raub> Moving onto...
19:26:37 <raub> #topic 4. Tech Items
19:26:56 <raub> noway2: do you have something for this topic? Otherwise we can move on
19:27:03 <noway2> Just a quick update.
19:27:33 <raub> Go for it
19:28:00 <noway2> I had been reading up on some tutorials for libvirt, kvm, qemu, etc... it is now getting past the word salad stage and earlier after I was able to log in again, I was looking at the XML conf and images and stuff  already on Moya.  I think I will try spinning up a server instance here pretty quick.
19:28:30 <noway2> It looks like there is plenty of disk space. Memory may be a little short, not sure.
19:29:19 <raub> You can probabtl get away with a test vm with 1-2GB of RAM
19:30:00 <raub> My home desktop (which I am using right now to type this) uses 4GB, but has GUI
19:30:56 <noway2> the free -m command on Moya only shows 234 meg free memory our of 32,240 meg.
19:31:20 <raub> Wow
19:31:40 <noway2> There are several VM instances configured, but only pilot is running or set to load.
19:32:04 <raub> Can you run top and see who is using what? Configured but not running instances use no memory
19:32:43 <noway2> libvirt+ running 12.7% mem
19:34:15 <noway2> top confirms memory usage: KiB Mem:  33013880 total, 32774296 used,   239584 free,   275052 buffers
19:35:12 <noway2> I guess I need to look at how much mem is assigned to Pilot and see what it is using.
19:35:12 <raub> Well, Linux always try to use any free memory, which is why I was wondering what top said
19:35:37 <raub> virsh dumpxml pilot
19:37:43 <noway2> <memory unit='KiB'>4194304</memory>
19:37:48 <noway2> <currentMemory unit='KiB'>4194304</currentMemory>
19:38:00 <raub> virsh dominfo pilot
19:38:23 <raub> So pilot is only using 4GB?
19:38:44 <noway2> Max and Used 4194304 KiB
19:39:42 <noway2> yup, but moya says 31g of memory with 31g in use.  nothign else other than the VM showed up in top. Might need to dig deeper. Something is using it.
19:40:15 <bdmc> do virsh list -a
19:40:24 <raub> AFAIK, Linux does not like to have unused RAM. It finds something to use it on
19:41:38 <noway2> Good point.  I am running this laptop and it says 338 mb free with 3757 used.
19:44:02 <bdmc> noway2: Are you currently logged in to Moya?
19:44:07 <noway2> yes.
19:44:17 <bdmc> what does virst list -a say?
19:44:27 <bdmc> or even virsh list -a
19:44:50 <bdmc> Should show both Dom0 and Pilot running, and then others.
19:45:19 <noway2> error: unexpected data '-a'
19:45:26 <raub> virsh list --all
19:45:31 <bdmc> Yes
19:46:18 <noway2> It shows pilot running, dargo, debian8, debiantesting, ipaserver1 and rhel7.2 shut off
19:47:20 <bdmc> Right, I heard that, but forgot.  Not a Xen server, but KVM.
19:47:54 <bdmc> As raub said, most of that memory will be in cache or buffers or....
19:48:29 <raub> So it is only running one vm, pilot. You have free memory
19:48:52 <noway2> If Pilot is a 4gig machine, it's probably the VM just keeping stuff in memory but has room to let it go.
19:49:41 <noway2> We'll see what happens when I spin up an image. I'll start with about 1 - 2 gig and see what the allocation looks like.
19:49:43 <bdmc> The VM in a KVM machine is just another program.  It will be taking up the amount of space that the OS has allocated to it.
19:51:23 <noway2> Agreed.
19:52:20 <bdmc> Yes, Pilot will take up 4G of memory, no more, no less.
19:52:53 <noway2> And the OS has just allocated more to Libvirt+ because it can....
19:53:30 <bdmc> Where do you see that?  I see 3.993g.
19:54:29 <noway2> Duh, you're right. So where is the extra going, unless it just hasn't been paged out or something.
19:55:27 <bdmc> Are you talking about the physical memory in Moya?  As raub and I have said, it is "extra" and Linux will find a use.
19:55:58 <bdmc> That machine has a lot of capacity for more VMs.
19:56:18 <noway2> Yes, I think it wa a red herring that caught me by surprise.  I think it will be fine. Once I spin up a VM we can take another look.
19:56:47 <raub> Sounds like a plan
19:57:11 <raub> Since we spent so much time, let's go on to the last topic
19:57:16 <raub> #topic 5. General Business
19:57:17 <noway2> K
19:57:38 <raub> bdmc: Do we have anything due ($) coming up?
19:58:17 <bdmc> No more than the usual bank charges, if I remember correctly.   I haven't looked at the account this month.
19:58:33 <raub> I am concerned about meetup and other bills
19:59:04 <bdmc> I paid Michael for Meetup.  I don't think that we have any other bills pending.
19:59:15 <raub> K
19:59:45 <raub> Well, I have nothing left
20:00:00 <noway2> That was a good meeting!
20:00:11 <raub> Entertaining!
20:00:41 <raub> If anyone needs to add more stuff or followup with what we talked here, use the steering mailing list
20:00:42 <bdmc> However, time for some of us to get back to work.
20:00:50 <raub> bdmc: Indeed
20:01:12 <raub> Alright then. Thanks for showing up
20:01:18 <raub> #endmeeting