00:00:13 <billf> #startmeeting 00:00:14 <Tribot> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 00:00:13 2013 UTC. The chair is billf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:15 <Tribot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:41 <billf> #chair billf alpo coxn 00:00:42 <Tribot> Current chairs: alpo billf coxn 00:01:11 <billf> #topic May Meeting - FreeIPA 00:06:06 <billf> The May talk is all on schedule. Does anyone have any comments ? 00:11:50 <billf> ...crickets... 00:21:32 <billf> ...crickets... 00:22:25 <billf> and I just realized that I am an hour early :-) 00:26:11 <coxn> yeah my calendar said 21:00 for this meeting 00:26:27 <coxn> I was a bit perplexed when I saw your email 00:36:55 <billf> coxn: sorry - I feel bad now :-( 00:42:21 <coxn> no worries 00:42:37 <coxn> got me to check in early and sort through things that would've slowed me down in the morning 00:56:55 <coxn> so did mysql get sorted out? 00:57:24 <coxn> I got an email from /root/cron/backup-mysql.sh 00:57:36 <coxn> mysqldump: Couldn't execute 'SELECT /*!40001 SQL_NO_CACHE */ * FROM `INNODB_BUFFER_PAGE`': Access denied; you need (at least one of) the PROCESS privilege(s) for this operation (1227) 01:00:24 <alpo> coxn: i fixed that this morning - added a new table for roundcube, needed perms to back it up nightly 01:00:44 <billf> @alpo++ 01:00:52 <alpo> sorry for not following up 01:01:32 <justis> o/ 01:01:39 <billf> #chair billf alpo coxn justis 01:01:40 <Tribot> Current chairs: alpo billf coxn justis 01:02:06 <alpo> do we have a hangout, for those who are hangout-capable? 01:02:08 <billf> welcome - we are missing jeremy at this point 01:02:48 <coxn> @alpo++ 01:03:16 <coxn> maybe we should set up a mumble server 01:03:21 <coxn> and do that for voice 01:03:24 <coxn> and IRC for the text 01:03:36 <coxn> not sure the hangout thing has ever been great for anything but the voice 01:03:45 <billf> how about using IRC tonight ? 01:03:53 <alpo> sure... i don't need to see your lovely faces 01:04:34 <coxn> yeah let's stick with IRC for tonight 01:04:44 <coxn> btw https://launchpad.net/~mumble/+archive/snapshot 01:04:52 <coxn> maybe I'll get a linode finally 01:05:02 <justis> https://www.mymumble.com/ "New to Mumble? Want to test out our service? Or just need a small voice server for you and your friends? Enjoy a FREE 5 slot Mumble server for LIFE! No payment required and your server will never expire." 01:05:15 <coxn> or that, yeah 01:05:24 <alpo> referral link -> http://www.linode.com/?r=f1f51adbace9555a7a8f2c89ca214446484c12c1 01:05:35 <justis> IRC is good with me 01:05:47 <alpo> yes, i don't want to experiment tonight 01:06:12 <billf> #topic May Meeting - FreeIPA 01:06:16 <billf> The May talk is all on schedule. Does anyone have any comments ? 01:06:30 <alpo> may = who ? 01:06:38 <alpo> cathy davidson ? 01:06:46 <justis> Jeremy Agee 01:07:09 <alpo> oh right 01:07:27 <alpo> https://steering.trilug.org/wiki/index.php/UpcomingMeetings 01:07:30 <coxn> we have slides, yeah? 01:08:19 <billf> no slides - but we have a detailed synopis / overview 01:09:11 <alpo> i have concerns about jeremy agee's presentation skills, but there's not much to do about it... he's eager to present and knows his stuff, but it comes out like a firehose 01:10:18 <billf> ok, so he is giving the talk with Chris Hudson 01:11:55 <billf> the talk will be a mixture of slides and demo 01:12:18 <coxn> let's encourage them to can their demo 01:12:22 <coxn> rather than do it live 01:12:28 <coxn> given that we have elections 01:12:33 <justis> yes 01:12:36 <justis> please 01:12:37 <coxn> and they run the risk of not really having time 01:12:47 <justis> gtkrecordmydesktop and done 01:13:09 <billf> they plan to have a recording of the demo in case it goes wrong live 01:13:20 <coxn> fair enough 01:13:38 <alpo> i can't think of anything we can do to help (delivery) at this stge, except remind jeremy that most of us don't know what Kerberos and LDAP are 01:13:58 <billf> #action billf to ask Jeremy Agee for the slides and demo recording in advance of the meeting 01:14:19 <justis> I know what IPA is. It's one of my favorite styles of beer. 01:14:46 <justis> and I suspect you'd get that answer from most LUG members (or they'd say they don't like hops much) 01:15:03 <billf> #topic Future Meeting Location - 3 months out 01:15:11 * alpo likes a good porter 01:15:30 <billf> we need to sort this out and finalise where we are moving to 01:15:43 <justis> I think we're meeting at NCSU. 01:15:48 <alpo> best options so far -- a classroom 01:15:59 <justis> Barry has assured me he'll secure our room for July and any other months we need 01:16:11 <alpo> most important - who is our campus liaison? 01:16:15 <coxn> I'm a bit nervous about NCSU given how universities generally work 01:16:17 <justis> but that we should be able to get a faculty sponsor, which would be somewhat more reliable 01:16:38 <justis> the problem with NCSU is that they won't let us reserve rooms until a given semester starts 01:16:41 <coxn> alpo, justis -- agreed 01:16:41 <billf> OK, I am going to start a SC wiki page for this topic 01:18:13 <coxn> should we follow any other leads? 01:18:17 <coxn> eggs, basket, etc. 01:18:37 <coxn> I think downtown red hat is the logical fallback 01:18:47 <alpo> i thought they did not have a room for us 01:18:53 <billf> https://steering.trilug.org/wiki/index.php/Meeting_Location_July_2013 01:19:10 <justis> I replied to an email from Jeremy just now on the SC list 01:19:13 <coxn> while true, we have two red hat employees who I think can step up 01:19:20 <justis> highly germane, please skim 01:19:48 <justis> I also got Phil Smith to sign up for the redhat-trilug list 01:20:17 <justis> he helps me organize geekSPARK and he's curious about how user groups can meet at RedHat. He works at their downtown location. 01:20:31 <alpo> justis: not sure what Harwood will buy us (for LUG meetings) 01:20:42 <alpo> all we need is a common classroom 01:20:49 <alpo> any prof can reserve a room 01:21:19 <justis> alpo: Did you read the email? Jeremy was led to believe that Harwood can get us a pass to continue meeting in the same room, even after RedHat vacates. 01:21:33 <alpo> i "skimmed" because I am on IRC :-) 01:22:17 <alpo> suggestion for future -- comments like that can help if included in the actual email, instead of requiring us to do background research for each email 01:22:46 <coxn> had to read jeremy's email to which justis had replied 01:22:58 <coxn> note the date 01:23:00 <alpo> we had a discussion this weekend about how it's hard to keep track of status by reading a lot of short and terse emails 01:23:45 <billf> let us summerize on the wiki page 01:24:14 <justis> geez 01:24:19 <justis> I'll put it in bold next time 01:24:24 <alpo> (now that i read the email more, my complaint does not really apply here) 01:24:30 <justis> thx 01:25:05 <billf> :-) 01:25:23 <coxn> okay so -- to focus on meeting space for TriLUG, we have names and a wikipage 01:25:35 <coxn> what else do we need? 01:25:43 <coxn> and who is doing what followup? 01:27:02 <billf> #chair billf alpo coxn jeremyhwllc justis 01:27:03 <Tribot> Current chairs: alpo billf coxn jeremyhwllc justis 01:27:03 <justis> I am following up with Barry 01:27:08 <billf> welcome jeremy 01:27:12 <jeremyhwllc> howdy 01:27:21 <justis> to confirm that NCSU LUG will reserve our room in July (and August if needed) 01:27:25 <coxn> to catch jeremyhwllc up: 01:27:27 <coxn> #link https://steering.trilug.org/wiki/index.php/Meeting_Location_July_2013 01:27:36 <billf> just talking about Harwood and NCSU 01:27:38 <justis> I am also searching for an email that Mitch Amiano sent me a while back about who in OIT can reserve rooms for us. 01:27:39 <jeremyhwllc> thanks 01:28:54 <jeremyhwllc> I asked Mitch to help with that today as well i a conversation about sponsoring BarCamp 01:30:19 <coxn> let's try to finish covering TriLUG meeting space and move on 01:30:33 <coxn> because I want to get to the Code of Conduct, Steering Elections, etc. 01:31:03 <jeremyhwllc> what else is there to discuss on the future meeting space? 01:31:26 <jeremyhwllc> stiil brainstorming? 01:31:31 <justis> my opinion is that NCSU LUG has us covered and we'll find a faculty sponsor 01:31:45 <jeremyhwllc> same here 01:32:05 <billf> not brainstorming - we just wanted to make sure we are moving in a consolidated direction on this 01:32:20 <jeremyhwllc> I dont see any other options better than NCSU 01:32:26 <coxn> yeah; I want to know who is doing what, and/or how we're handing off to the next SC 01:32:38 <jeremyhwllc> right 01:32:41 <coxn> so that we don't end up with August and September being a scramble 01:32:48 <justis> coxn: Barry is reserving a room for us for July. I am working to find us a faculty sponsor. 01:32:54 <justis> whatevs 01:32:59 <justis> you wanna fix it yourself, take ownership 01:33:56 <alpo> justis: don't take any terse IRC comments personally... we're just trying to avoid dropping things, and IRC is less-than-optimal 01:34:45 <billf> maybe we do need to use a hangout ? 01:34:47 <justis> I'd be grumpier via voice. My health is not good tonight :/ 01:35:30 <justis> I'm frustrated that I can't find this email from Mitch's colleague 01:36:19 <jeremyhwllc> if it makes you feel better I am in the dog house 01:36:21 <billf> maybe we should let this topic rest for tonight and move on ? 01:36:35 <coxn> I think so 01:36:35 <billf> hah, I'm always in the dog house 01:36:37 <coxn> seconded 01:36:55 <billf> #topic Code of Conduct 01:37:04 <jeremyhwllc> :) 01:37:18 <billf> I still haven't review coxn document - sorry 01:37:22 <coxn> okay, so who has feedback on the drafts? 01:37:31 <coxn> billf: now is as good a time as any to read it 01:37:37 <coxn> while I get comments from others 01:37:56 <coxn> I want people as on board as possible 01:38:08 <coxn> before I post publicly, both on my blog and to the mailing list 01:38:36 <justis> how long is it and where is the freshest copy? 01:39:00 <alpo> this doc has grown... i wonder if it'd be better to have the "short version" and the "if you're interested" version 01:39:02 <justis> I found the email I was looking for. It's from Dan Green. I forwarded it to steering@ and will follow-up after this meeting. 01:39:15 <justis> #action justis to email Dan Green about securing meeting space at NCSU 01:39:42 <billf> @justis++ 01:40:32 <coxn> justis: blog post or the code of conduct itself? 01:40:53 <coxn> the code of conduct is based on the same template used for the barcamp one 01:41:05 <coxn> and we can have short and long there, yeah 01:41:10 <justis> coxn: I want the link to the version you want me to review. 01:41:20 <coxn> I'll pm both 01:41:23 <coxn> one sec 01:41:26 <justis> thanks 01:42:41 <coxn> alpo: you already gave some feedback; any other thoughts? 01:42:55 <coxn> jeremyhwllc: have you looked at any drafts? 01:43:37 <coxn> I supose I should go ahead and make the short version in drupal 01:44:23 <billf> so this means you couldn't give a talk about the Code of Conduct and show images of what is not suitable :-) 01:44:29 <jeremyhwllc> I think it looks good to publish 01:45:13 <alpo> can someone post a link of the drupa post? 01:45:21 <billf> http://trilug.org/code-of-conduct 01:45:36 <jeremyhwllc> http://trilug.org/code-of-conduct 01:45:42 <jeremyhwllc> opps 01:46:01 <alpo> good, because i was reviewing the much longer (and personal) blog post 01:46:21 <jeremyhwllc> blog post where? 01:46:26 <justis> can someone please tell me how to find the login page for Drupal? 01:46:41 <billf> would you classify the recent "Apparent compromise of Jim Ray's computer?" email thread a form of harrasment ? 01:46:42 <alpo> trilug.org/user/login 01:46:49 <justis> alpo: thanks 01:46:49 <coxn> justis: I always have to do an email reset 01:46:54 <justis> is there a link to it anywhere? 01:46:55 <alpo> billf: no 01:47:02 <alpo> justis: no 01:47:07 <coxn> billf: no; it doesn't meet the current criteria 01:47:08 <justis> there should be a link on the "access denied" page 01:47:13 <coxn> billf: also, he hasn't complained to us 01:47:18 <alpo> billf: i don't think jim ray was offended, just too busy to really tune in 01:47:28 <billf> Q. does drupal use ldap. A. No 01:47:37 <alpo> billf: can it ? 01:47:45 <jeremyhwllc> so we cant discriminate againt microsoft users? 01:47:59 <alpo> no, jim is a special case 01:48:01 <billf> I think he was a bit miffed 01:48:10 <alpo> he likes to kid, and his sense of humor is goofy 01:48:17 <alpo> (but in general, i like the guy) 01:48:23 <jeremyhwllc> he seemed upset 01:48:42 <alpo> joe mack contacted jim ray, and jim said he was just busy 01:48:42 <justis> My opinion is that Aaron *was* harassing Jim, that Jim set himself up for it over a full decade, that Aaron laid it on too thick, and that Jim looks pretty dumb now. 01:48:48 <alpo> and also he unsubbed from the list 01:49:17 <jeremyhwllc> unsubbed? 01:49:24 <jeremyhwllc> nevermind 01:49:29 <justis> I'm not interested in shielding people who have a history of throwing stones. Jim has cast many. 01:49:42 <jeremyhwllc> really he unsubscribed? 01:49:45 <billf> coxn: my main feedback is that it comes over very acusitory and sex oriented. 01:50:03 <coxn> billf: what does? my blog post? 01:50:22 <billf> CoC 01:50:31 <alpo> for reference, the blog post is at http://cmpalmer.com/code-of-conduct-intro-rev3.html 01:51:03 <coxn> well, it'll actually be elsewhere 01:51:10 <alpo> a note on jim rav vs code of conduct... CoC is about things that people ARE, Aaron was making fun of the way Jim ACTS 01:51:10 <coxn> I put it there so it'd be quasi-public 01:51:13 <alpo> big difference 01:51:20 <coxn> good point 01:51:32 <alpo> so we can make fun of jerks or bullies, etc 01:52:07 <justis> Yeah. Why is sexual language and imagery called out in the first paragraph without calling out anything else? It makes it seem like we're primarily offended by sex, "Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any TriLUG-sponsored event or service. " 01:52:13 <justis> alpo: excellent distinction 01:52:31 <alpo> (that same distinction is important to emphasize with kids) 01:52:41 <coxn> gender inclusivity is not the only thing this is meant to address, but it's a major one 01:52:55 <coxn> accusatory is problematic, but I don't think sex-focused is problematic 01:53:02 <coxn> this can be amended in the future 01:53:30 <coxn> but right now, I think the gender imbalance is the problem I'm explicitly tackling 01:53:59 <alpo> i would like to emphasize "inclusiveness" rather than "diversity" 01:54:07 <coxn> also, I'm using a template rather than starting from scratch 01:54:10 <alpo> all are welcome... but we can't force diversity 01:54:12 <justis> coxn: I think that addressing gender inclusivity by focusing on a ban of sexual language and sexual imagery furthers the myth that all women are prudes and all men want to get in their pants. Let's not make gender inclusivity something which is exclusively about sex. 01:54:23 <coxn> so I'm inheriting the focus of that template 01:54:44 <jeremyhwllc> perhaps we should recruit speakers who are successful women in technology, to insoire or attract more females into the scene 01:54:54 <jeremyhwllc> isnpire 01:55:03 <justis> jeremyhwllc: now you're talking outreach 01:55:14 <justis> at the moment, we're just trying to create a safe environment 01:55:21 <jeremyhwllc> i need a typing tutor 01:55:24 <coxn> while I don't want to feed into gender essentialism, I don't think saying that this space is not one to be sexualized does that 01:55:41 <billf> would you mind if I asked a couple of ladies to review the CoC ? 01:55:43 <coxn> it doesn't call on just men to make the space not be a sexualized one, for example 01:55:49 <coxn> billf: not at all 01:56:07 <justis> coxn: I have no issue with forbidding sexual language and imagery. My issue is that it currently comes across as our main point, because of its early prominence in http://cmpalmer.com/code-of-conduct.html 01:56:11 <coxn> I have, and the feedback I have gotten, to the extent that I've gotten it, has been positive 01:56:15 <coxn> with specific changes proposed 01:56:47 <alpo> so i think the first paragraph just needs to be reordered a little, iwth the "sexual" sentence moved down a little 01:57:00 <coxn> here's the template, for reference: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy 01:57:13 <justis> or moved into a later paragraph, which enumerates multiple things we discourage or ban 01:57:24 <alpo> moved... after "harassment includes" 01:57:37 <justis> who determines what's offensive? "Harassment includes offensive verbal comments related to gender, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, country of origin, or age" 01:58:18 <coxn> we (the SC) respond when people come to us with complaints 01:58:20 <coxn> see also http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment 01:58:25 <coxn> for more resources 01:59:05 <justis> perhaps we s/offensive/derogatory/ 01:59:18 <coxn> specifically http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Duty_officer 01:59:30 <alpo> sure, the SC has had to make judgement calls in the past... like did matt frye go too far in pestering turnpike420 ? 02:00:00 <alpo> in that case, i told turnpike to go slug matt and leave us out of it 02:00:18 <justis> basically, I am concerned that "offensive" is in the ear of the offended. The solution to that starts with sympathy for someone who's offended. Further solution includes active compassion for those who might be offended. Falling off the cliff finishes with saying nothing because you're afraid you 02:00:23 <justis> 'll offend everybody. 02:00:58 <coxn> well, it's not a slippery slope 02:01:22 <coxn> perhaps I should copy the enforcement part and other resources from the wiki into our drupal 02:01:30 <coxn> because I'm confident this is covered 02:01:57 <coxn> if somebody comes forward with a complaint, the duty officer takes the complaint, makes sure the person feels safe, ... 02:02:19 <alpo> so for tonight... we have all seen the drupal post and the blog post... what do we need to do tonight... assume coxn will wordsmith some later htis week? 02:02:20 <coxn> and also speaks with the person accused of harassment 02:02:45 * alpo points to his watch 02:02:49 * billf keeps reminding himself that this is Trilug and not CarolinaCon 02:03:23 <coxn> can I get a quick show of hands? 02:03:32 <coxn> who would object to me making these things public? 02:03:52 * alpo approves, but agrees that some sentences could be ironed out 02:04:20 <billf> from a "quality" viewpoint, perhaps the SC needs to record the incident and actions in some way as well 02:04:42 <jeremyhwllc> the COC on the TriLUG drupal? I vote publish and adjust as needed 02:04:47 <alpo> tha's a good practice, but does not necessarily need to be in the by-laws 02:04:55 <coxn> it's on the drupal, yes 02:05:12 <jeremyhwllc> quickest way to hit the target is fire then adjust fire 02:05:23 <billf> ie, someone reports something to me, and I warn the offender - I should at least summerise it in an email to the SC list 02:05:33 <alpo> jeremyhwllc: your training is showing 02:05:54 <coxn> we'll cover enforcement before the May meeting, how's that? 02:05:55 <billf> jeremyhwllc: except when it's friendly's over there 02:05:57 <jeremyhwllc> sorry about that :) 02:05:58 <justis> I am not comfortable with what I am reading. 02:06:04 <justis> That said, I am tired and grumpy. 02:06:11 <alpo> billf: agreed, but we don't spell out all of our operations in the AoI or by-laws 02:06:17 <justis> I am still grateful for coxn's leadership in this direction. 02:06:22 <coxn> :) 02:06:26 <justis> I am just not ready to endorse what's written here. 02:06:27 <billf> I would like to hold off publishing until we have changed the tone 02:06:32 <alpo> @coxn++ 02:06:45 <jeremyhwllc> i am good with that too 02:06:46 <coxn> hold off on the drupal? 02:07:04 <justis> yes, please 02:07:06 <billf> yeah, not bashing you coxn, I just don't want to offend anyone 02:07:09 <alpo> OK, so coxn adjust wording and email to the SC this week 02:07:25 <coxn> I'm publishing Tuesday morning at the latest 02:07:35 <coxn> and I will have a draft by tomorrow morning 02:07:41 <billf> I will review it more and send edits to the SC list 02:07:46 <coxn> we need enough time for people to review publicly 02:07:52 <alpo> (what's on Tuesday?) 02:07:52 <coxn> so they know what they're voting on 02:08:04 <alpo> oh, the time before the meeting 02:08:11 <coxn> exactly 02:08:23 * alpo takes some time, but gets there in the end 02:08:54 <jeremyhwllc> I can send this to the SHARP instructor at work for review as well 02:09:10 <coxn> jeremyhwllc: thanks 02:09:45 <coxn> okay; we can be done for the evening 02:09:53 <billf> #topic Steering Committee Elections 02:10:14 <jeremyhwllc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrJOw9QgDc here is a link to sexual harrassment concert 02:10:19 <alpo> ah yes, we need some more nominations and stump speeches in the mailing list 02:10:30 <billf> do we have any new member forms that need to be entered before the meeting 02:10:34 <jeremyhwllc> Matt Frazier is a no go 02:10:39 <alpo> i think so 02:10:45 <justis> jeremyhwllc: he's too busy? 02:10:50 <jeremyhwllc> yup 02:11:01 <alpo> that is, forms = yes 02:11:50 <alpo> forms added to my "remember the milk" for this week 02:12:11 <coxn> @alpo++ 02:12:22 <billf> if your running this time round, post a stump speech 02:12:48 <billf> if you think of someone who would be good on the SC, email them privately and prod them 02:13:15 <jeremyhwllc> who of you are able to run again? 02:13:29 <jeremyhwllc> or not 02:13:43 <justis> I am considering running again 02:13:50 * alpo is taking a sabbatical after 5 years on the SC 02:13:57 <justis> particuarly since we're losing two of you :/ 02:14:04 <justis> and I've only heard of two new candidates 02:14:09 <justis> and I like both of them 02:14:17 <coxn> I am planning to run again, but my blog post is part of my "stump" 02:14:20 <justis> and would enjoy serving with them 02:14:25 <coxn> so I can't post to the list until that is live 02:14:51 <justis> coxn: you can climb on the stump more than once ;) 02:14:57 * alpo is hoping to be considered like Kevin Otte, SC-emiritus and volunteer-for-life 02:15:04 <coxn> no, I think I need to focus 02:15:13 <justis> alpo: you're already considered that :) 02:15:36 <coxn> okay gents, are we done? 02:16:01 <justis> can we quickly list the candidates? 02:16:12 <jeremyhwllc> JAck Hill 02:16:17 <jeremyhwllc> Barry Peddycord 02:16:20 <alpo> coxn, billf, justis, barry, jack 02:16:28 <jeremyhwllc> Michael Hrivnak 02:16:33 <justis> oh, cool 02:16:42 <justis> is Michael officially running? 02:16:57 <coxn> neither Jack nor Michael have officially accepted 02:16:57 <jeremyhwllc> Nominated by Aaron Joyner 02:17:00 <coxn> as far as I have seen 02:17:09 <coxn> but I spoke with Jack 02:17:12 <coxn> and he's considering 02:17:16 <justis> good 02:17:19 <justis> he belongs on the SC 02:17:34 <coxn> justis: wouldn't hurt if you told him that 02:17:37 <coxn> directly 02:17:37 <jeremyhwllc> Michael would be an asset as well 02:17:42 <coxn> agreed 02:17:55 <jeremyhwllc> ties with NCSU and RedHat are a good idea 02:18:17 <jeremyhwllc> critical at this point 02:18:40 <justis> coxn: Thanks. I'm emailing Jack now. 02:19:56 <billf> it's getting late - anything else ? 02:20:04 <coxn> I can be done 02:20:46 * alpo is done 02:21:03 <coxn> #endmeeting