[TriLUG] different versions of 7.2 for sale]

[Jon Carnes]

On Monday 29 October 2001 23:49, Brent Fox wrote:
> On Monday 29 October 2001 10:40 pm, Kevin - The Alchemist - Sonney wrote:
> > First up, one of the things I *LIKE* about the Madrake, Debian, and
> > pre Anaconda RedHat installers is the ability to see what setp I'm on,
> > and how many are left. While the help bar on the left is nice, I much
> > prefer the way mandrake has "help" as an option button, and the
> > install task list on the left.
>
> Hmm...we have had some requests for a step list in the past and we've not
> done it for a couple of reasons.  The main one is that the screen is
> already a little crowded with the help text on the screen.  The jump in
> screen resolution from 640x480 to 800x600 in 7.1 make this a little
> better, but things are still tight.  A secondary reason is that we
> couldn't decide how useful it would be.  I think it would be useful, but
> less so than the help text, especially to a new user.
>
> The usability studies we've done show that Linux newbies really use the
> help text, so I'd be reluctant to hide that somehow.  We will consider
> this feature for a future release.
>
Whoa!  Partner... That "step list" screen on the side is one of the most 
attractive features of Mandrake.  I regularly give Mandrake to Newbie 
users, and that is one of the reasons, the install is laid out so well.  

Intuitively folks know that they are going to go through the displayed 
steps.  The context sensitive help lets them know what each step is 
designed to do, and this is more helpful than us old jaded folks realize!

Everyone I give Mandrake to is impressed by this feature!  They all wonder 
why MS doesn't do it, and I have always wondered why Redhat doesn't do 
it...  It's a mistake not to implement this feature!
 
I had a an old Toshiba laptop that I tried to put RH on early last year, 
and it just didn't work.  On a lark, I downloaded Mandrake and installed it 
on the laptop.  The difference was night and day.  Mandrake install was 
clearly laid out and the questions were backed up with context sensitive 
help.  At anytime, I could backup to a point in the list and start over, 
not that I had to, because I let it do its default thing, and *man* it flew 
onto my harddrive and never missed a beat.  The three big things it did 
that RH didn't were detect the proper settings for my screen, detect and 
setup the PCMCIA network card, and detect and setup the built in modem.  
Oh, and I forgot to mention that it also auto detected and setup the sound! 
(my jaw almost hit the floor when it started playing music on the 
reboot...) Those are four vital things that all installs should do well.

That install absolutely blew me away!  It was far easier than MS, and it 
was far more complete than RH.... I was an instant convert (just ask the 
folks at the LUG).

After the boot up, there are the apps that come on Mandrake by default.  
Every production tool that you use in a standard business is there!  You 
can literally punt your old MS out the window and never look back.  That 
too is extremely impressive.

Now here is a suggestion that you are going to *hate!* After boot, include 
a menuing system that mirrors the functionality of Windows, but points to 
gnome/KDE apps.  Maybe enable it via a checkbox: New converts check here 
for start menu on your desktop...

With Mandrake Linux is accessable (meaning installable) to anyone.  It's 
the next step after the install that is important to maintaining the 
convert.  The new user needs a touch of the familiar in order to gain that 
"intuitive functionality" that makes something instantly usable.

Whatever you do, don't dismiss the way Mandrake does its install (well 
don't use tiny stars for check boxes!.. but otherwise).  It rocks compared 
to Red Hats.

Now don't get me wrong, I love RH and use it on all my servers - well the 
VA Linux modified version.  I wish RH did to its own OS distribution what 
VA Linux used to do!  patch it and add to it, to make a killer OS for 
servers that was always up-to-date.  I would buy the official box-set for 
everyone of my servers to get that service!  

BTW: this is something that Mandrake is doing with its Cooker releases.  
Not quite as good as VA Linux, but then Mandrake is aimed at the 
workstation.  But Mandrake has the right idea here.  The major Revs take 
too damn long.  The world of Linux changes too damn fast and you simply do 
not want to install a 3 month old distribution and then patch it and patch 
it and patch it... and hope that you've got something stable and current.  

(Yes, I know all about the auto-update, but it's always, and I mean always 
hosed my machine or just plain not worked, and I don't trust it, and I 
probably never will because it follows a shot-gun style of upgrading and 
doesn't do any intelligent choosing and balancing of the apps/libraries 
that it upgrades). 

With the Cooker releases, Mandrake has some savvy guys putting together a 
nice current release that is patched and tested.  It's not as tested and 
tried as some of VAL's old releases, but in most cases, they are better 
than my efforts, and it takes me far less time to download and use these 
than it does for me to install and patch a system on my own.

So that's my 6 cents on the matter.  I truly hope that Red Hat improves 
its installer.  It always kills me at Installfest to hear newbies asking 
for RedHat and then I always feel that it is my duty to talk them into 
Mandrake.  I want their first experience with Linux to be as pleasant and 
easy as possible - and the Mandrake Installer truly does impress them more 
than RedHat's.

Jon Carnes