[TriLUG] Promotions for Installfests

Thu May 16 14:51:45 EDT 2002

> 3. Installing your DVD drive so it will play DVD's. The software is now
> available and Decss is not needed now.

Reallly? How?
=======================

OK, I'm a newbie, but the latest issue of  LINUX FORMAT magazine has a
review of the many DVD programs available to Linux users, and THEY say that
it is not needed now. How is beyond my level of expertise but would be a
great program topic!!

    While I'm at it, I want to speak on the topic of "laziness" vs. "lack of
knowledge" vs. "finding a needle in a haystack". Whenever I attempt to try
and find something in one of those "Man" files I always feel like I'm
searching for the proverbial "needle in a haystack".
It's sort of like DROWNING IN INFORMATION, none of which seems to answer the
specific question which I'm trying to answer. I'm not the only one who feels
this way since I've read that there is now a group attempting to improve
some of them.

 I still don't know as much as I'd like to know about Linux, but I've
already read a lot of books, some of which made sense. I still have yet to
find a manual which gives beginners the information they need most without
burying them in a lot of  command line UNIX. The reason most people are
interested in Linux is not the command line, rather it is existence of KDE
and Gnome. It's interesting to me that Mac OSX (which as you know is based
on BSD) in their manual briefly discusses the "terminal" in OSX with these
words similar to these. The terminal is available for experts but few people
will ever need to use it.

Now I know that it is possible to upgrade the Kernel and do lots of useful
things without ever using the command line. In fact one of our members has
his parents using Linux and apparently they never use the command line.

Isn't it enough that someone is using Linux without having to resort to the
command line??
Yes, as long as the command line is there the Linux aces will have it to do
their magic, but what about the rest of us who just want what that OTHER
company cannot seem to provide: a stable operating system which is reliable
and works.

Let me give an example about what I'm talking about. Recently one of the
Tri-lug newbies attempted to upgrade his kernel using the hard way, but he
made a mistake which ruined his system. Only after he had done this did
someone point out that if he just wanted to upgrade his kernel without
customizing it he could have just downloaded an RPM and done it much more
safely.

While I'm impressed with the command line's power and what it can do (coming
from a DOS background I really do miss the power of batch files), you're not
going to convert others to the command line by just saying they need to work
harder. Instead, you need at the very least to create a book of simple
commands which can do useful things everyone is interested in. Then over
time they will add their own one line programs and become a "command line
convert". In the beginning of every meeting you should discuss the "easy
way" before you discuss the "hard way".  PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LEARN TO CRAWL
BEFORE THEY CAN RUN---this is a fact of life. Teach someone to crawl first,
before you try to teach someone to run, if you want a lot of runners. It is
not a question of laziness, it's a question of knowledge and experience or
the lack of it. Everyone had to crawl in Linux before he/she could run with
the big boys/girls. The thing that makes the command line scary is the
knowledge that one typing error has the ability to destroy your system (if
you're in ROOT), and no amount of text in a MAN file is going to prevent
that. That's why most people prefer graphic operating systems.

    Remember, there are some people who just enjoy using their computer to
do simple things: sending and reading email, watching DVD's or listening to
CD's, surfing the web, printing a letter, using a database, sorting a long
list, etc., etc. etc. I don't know much about Linux, but I do know that it
is possible to do most of these things without having to do them in ROOT (by
changing the permissions) or using the command line. Yes, I know it may be
simpler to YOU to do it through the terminal, but you and I really can't
speak for others!!  If we want Linux to really succeed (maybe some really
don't), you have got to help people crawl in it first.----I apologize for
being so long-winded. And I also apologize to Sinner, who is really a nice
guy. He was nice enough to put the ball on the tee, and the opportunity to
hit it was too tempting. So thanks, Sinner, for this opportunity.--Al
Johnson.

----- Original Message -----
From: Sinner from the Prairy <sinner at escomposlinux.org>
To: <trilug at trilug.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TriLUG] Promotions for Installfests

> Avui, Dijous 16 Maig 2002 02:09, no tenieu res mes que fer i me vareu
enviar
> aquest e-mail
> > Other topics which cause newbie Linux users heartburn??
>
> Cool!
>
> > I can name quite a few:
> > 1. Modem installations. My son (magna cum laude at Princeton in computer
> > science!!) who can do just about anything in Linux did not know how to
> > install a modem in his dad's Linux machine. And it was an ISA modem that
> > was not a Winmodem!! Eventually it got installed but not until after a
lot
> > of reading, heartburn and online advice. Even though I've done it
> > sucessfully once, I don't think I could do it again.
>
> Here the problem is hardware (faulty or old or both). ISA "plug'n'play" is
a
> dreaded and plainly awful piece of engineering. Get yourself a nice,
external
> (non-usb) modem and you have the modem isntalled in 3 minutes. Really.
Just
> plug the modem, launch Kppp, click, click, done.
>
> > 2. Installing software and the constant problem with dependencies. The
>
> Use Debian (apt-get) or Mandrake (urpmi). Dependencies problem solved.
urpmi
> available on text and graphical mode.
>
> > biggest problem I see with a novice installing Linux is after getting
the
> > system up and running how do you install the OTHER programs especially
when
> > those other programs need software which aren't on your system because
> > neither Red Hat nor Mandrake remembered to include them!! Where do you
go
> > to get that software and where do you put it on the system. (Also a
topic
>
> Are you sure that it is not yto be found on the CDs? Red Hat ships with 3
CDs
> of RPMs (plus 2 of SRPMS). Mandrake, also 3 CDs. Debian... 5 or 8 or
> something like that. I want to say: that's a lot of software!
>
> > not usually covered in the manuals--probably because they don't want to
> > point out that needed programs were not included in your
distribution--Grip
> > needing Lame instantly comes to mind :-) And even if you do find out
where
>
> Which distribution and which version of the distribution? I use Grip on
Red
> Hat and Mandrake, "out of the box", to oggize my audio-CDs so I have them
on
> my hdd (yes, I'm lazy). It worked fine, no problem.
>
> > the software you need is online, when you get there, you face the
problem
> > of WHICH file do you download??
>
> Usualy, if you get to the website where you can find the software, there's
a
> nice place called "Home" and another one calleed "Documentation" that, if
you
> bother to read, you can get the knowledge.
>
> Do not blame Linux for users lazyness.
>
> > 3. Installing your DVD drive so it will play DVD's. The software is now
> > available and Decss is not needed now.
>
> Reallly? How?
>
> > 4. Installing and especially using disk-burning software to create
CD-R's
> > and CD-RW's.
>
> Let's see... Red Hat comes with Xcdroast, Koncd, Gnom Toaster. Out of the
box.
> Mandrake, same stuff.
>
> > 5. Give me some time and I'll think of some others. In other words, the
> > little things which the makers of your distribution forgot to include in
> > the initial installation.
>
> OK.
>
>
> Salut,
> Sinner
> --
> RedHat QA Test Engineer  --  Running RedHat 7.3 on i386smp
> http://www.ibiblio.org/sinner/
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