[TriLUG] New member re-location question

Fri Jun 13 07:04:35 EDT 2003

I have to agree with Jon. Well, not the "uncomfortable" part because I have seen too much censorship over the last couple of years about words or topics that someone somewhere has deemed uncomfortable (re: Harvard's Law School restricting speech), but otherwise he's right on target.

I would love a cushy job earning big bucks making buggy whips, but for some reason I can't find that job either, ditto steam engines, vacuum tubes and being the world champion Pong player on my state of the art 19 inch RCA television.

My point is that nothing is forever. Gone are the days of 40 years at a single job followed by a retirement party and a gold watch. And although I would love to blame it all on someone, as is so ofter the case is the new victim-based society, I can't. The politicians are a whole different breed, most of them have been feeding at the public trough so long that they have no idea what makes the economy tick. The big corporations are doing what they can for their shareholders - usually people like us, that want them to be as profitable as possible so that we can earn some money. It certainly isn't the Indians fault - just like you can't blame a pro athlete for asking for a zillion dollar contract - because usually they get it.

For the past month or so while working as a carpenter during the day, and doing contract web developemnt at night and weekends, I have started thinking about going back and getting my teaching certificate so I can teach high school history, my first dream but one I put aside because it paid crap.

Unlike Iraq, no one is holding a gun to our head here, we are free, thank God, to pursue what we want. I know some of us feel a bit more pressure due to big mortgages, kids, bad investments in the past, but only one thing can really turn up the heat on the national economy again - and that's confidence. I know that technology has many of the answers, I also know that it will mean that fewer people will be required to do future jobs - you can look at that as a positive or a negative. France has had decades of double digit unemployment, Germany despite recent drops is still over 10% unemployment, but they have more job insurance then us. But when those guys have a great new idea, or invention, they often come to the US where our freedom lets them prosper.

Ok, ok, we're waaaay off topic. Now returning you to your regularly scheduled programming, and hopefully it's PHP ;-)

Phil

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/13/2003 at 1:50 AM Jon Carnes wrote:

>I have to say that I am very "uncomfortable" with this kind of message
>being sent to a LUG of which I am a member.
>
>I really don't want to extend this conversation, but I cannot in good
>conscience allow your thoughts to sit out here unanswered and unopposed.
>I firmly believe in the American dream and in our economy. I also have
>no problems with other countries waking up to our way of doing business,
>and accepting our work ethic.
>
>I remember someone saying once: All men are created equal. To me that is
>America.
>
>The world is changing, and the place of IT in that world is also
>changing.  Don Rosenberg gave quite an elegant talk on this issue a few
>months ago.  You should look it up in our archives.
>
>Don's "guesses about what tomorrow will bring" are right on.  And so is
>his analysis of why.  It's not foreign competition - it's evolution. 
>Our old Technocratic existence is fading and specialists either have to
>move on or become even more specialized. 
>
>Our technology gets easier to manage and control every day.  Our jobs
>become more and more automated.  Systems have become more adaptive and
>encompassing - especially the standard systems used by businesses. It no
>longer takes an expert to setup a VPN; you can do it by simply buying
>two Linksys routers (total cost > $300).
>
>You can morn the loss of those times, or change with the times. 
>Accepting change and adapting to it is the mark of a man with character.
>
>Cursing the change, and casting about, looking to place blame on the
>weak is the mark of despair and fear. I will not allow such ignorance to
>go unopposed at my LUG.
>
>Jon Carnes
>
>On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 00:46, Patrick Williams wrote:
>> I fully agree that the "mess" began on Bubba's watch, but now what is
>being
>> done to stem the tide?  For every programming job available here there
>are
>> probably 10 Indians and 100 Chinese waiting to take it.  And, according
>to
>> "The Bell Curve" (Herrnstein and Murray) they are smarter than us.
>> 
>> But if they are so smart why do they have such poverty in their
>respective
>> countries with no hi-tech jobs there?  Where are the inventors and
>promoters
>> that would make them the richest country in the world?  Why do they come
>to
>> the US for education?
>> 
>> I am a child of the 50's and have watched the slow erosion of the moral
>> fiber of this country and with it the oncoming greed syndrome and
>purchased
>> law-makers.
>> 
>> There was a time when you had to be a citizen in order to own property in
>> the US, but the big real-estate and property owners got the politicians
>to
>> change the law.  Since then more and more laws have changed or been
>> temporarily abridged to lower the cost of labor of all skill levels.  The
>> unions have been beaten asunder, the farmers have had to sell out to the
>big
>> concerns and now it's our turn.
>> 
>> This country is not big enough to take on all the world's troubles and
>work
>> forces.  Yet we continue to allow the laws to change or not be enforced
>at
>> all so that the rich and powerful will have cheap labor and nannies for
>$2
>> per hour.
>> 
>> Maybe I have lived too long and can see where the curve is
>progressing... or
>> maybe everyone is happy with their new jobs and could care less about
>going
>> back to programming careers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Magnus Hedemark" <chrish at trilug.org>
>> To: <trilug at trilug.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TriLUG] New member re-location question
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 10:32 PM, Patrick Williams wrote:
>> >
>> > > If anyone is interested in doing something about this "who stole my
>> > > career"
>> > > scenario then they will have to gather enough votes to overcome the
>> > > lobby
>> > > money interests of big business.  Are you ready to take action or do
>> > > you
>> > > like selling shoes and french fries waiting for the recovery that
>will
>> > > never
>> > > come for us.
>> >
>> > You give way too much credit to the politicians for the mess we're in.
>> > And remember, evidence of the oncoming of hard times started becoming
>> > very apparent weeks *before* the current president took office.  The
>> > last one was pretty well entrenched when it became popular to move high
>> > tech jobs to India.  Both of the big parties will screw you, make no
>> > mistake.  Most of these guys have no special inside knowledge about how
>> > to make things better for you & me.  The ones that really can make a
>> > difference usually have a distaste for politics.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TriLUG mailing list
>> >     http://www.trilug.org/mailman/listinfo/trilug
>> > TriLUG Organizational FAQ:
>> >     http://www.trilug.org/faq/TriLUG-faq.html
>> 
>> 
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