[TriLUG] OT: PT One tech issue from tonight's debate

Brandon Van Every bvanevery at gmail.com
Sat Oct 20 20:36:17 EDT 2012


On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 11:09:52 -0400, Brandon Van Every said:
>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Joseph Mack NA3T <jmack at wm7d.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> > Chris Merrill thinks that if something is wrong you should move
>> > too. This doesn't scale. You can't abandon a place because you
>> > aren't prepared to fix the problems.
>>
>> Sure you can.  You just have golden handcuffs.  Last month I met a
>
> But should you? Joseph's last clause was "because you aren't prepared
> to fix the problem". Where would we be if this country's founding
> fathers weren't prepared to fix the problem? Hail to the King!

They didn't fix all the problems.  People got around to dealing with
some of those later, and the US Civil War still didn't fix all the
problems.  The Civil Rights movement comes almost 100 years later and
*still* doesn't fix all the problems.  Yet things have gotten better,
individuals have managed to make their success in the world despite
the never ending problems, and Americans are highly mobile.  I daresay
the political systems of California and Washington state are superior
to NC, both in general political outlook, and in having direct ballot
initiatives.  Unlike here, if you don't like what the bums in office
are doing, you can make up your own initiative and get it turned into
law if you get enough signatures and votes on it.  So yes, you can
"fix the problem" by voting with your feet and living somewhere else
if NC is too terrible for you.  The main advantages of NC are that
it's cheaper than a lot of those other tech hubs, has acceptable to
decent weather taken as an average, and is not politically regressive
even if it isn't exactly progressive.  NC was also a bunch of foot
draggers when it came time for the civil war, BTW.  Comes from being
that close to the North, I'm sure.

> As far as the people you met last month, throughout this discussion,
> those favoring unfettered college graduate immigration (and later we
> found out they favored unfettered corporate activity too) justified
> their position with personal anecdotes. Basically, "I made it work, so
> anybody can", or "this guy made it work, so anybody can", thus ignoring
> the fact that we all have different skillsets, families, initial
> finances, health, and just plain luck.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_Song

> Throughout this discussion, people taking a more measured
> approach emphasized Americans as a group, rather than relying on
> anecdotes. Anecdotes are great when you're reading a "Chicken Soup for
> the Soul" book, but they're a crappy way to run an organization, state
> or nation.

What you are doing in decrying "anecdotes," is applying a standard
litany of intellectual defenses, ignoring *your own* personal decision
to see the world in terms of the sky falling, bad policies, I'm a
victim, woe is me, etc.

> And once again, at work you guys use algorithms sufficiently complex to
> mesh with real, non-trivial problem domains. Why don't you do the same
> thing when talking politics?

I do.  I know what wetware actually does and how to use it, and you
are making excuses.  Like I said before, "golden handcuffs."


Cheers,
Brandon Van Every



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