[TriLUG] OT: PT One tech issue from tonight's debate

[Joseph Mack NA3T]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, Chris Merrill wrote:

>> I'll bight. Tell me, how much did I benefit from 2007-8?
>
> I'm not sure I see your point in singling out those years,

the american economy tanked. many people were laid off. 
people who had kept up with their mortgages, had their 
houses go underwater when large numbers of neighboring 
houses were foreclosed. Other countries were affected. It's 
called the GFC (global financial crisis) outside the usa.

> but assuming you remained alive during all of 2007-8, were 
> not burglarized, beaten, threatened or persecuted in any 
> way, then you benefitted a lot. Just look around you! 
> You live in a country that is safe,

the murder rate is 3-5 times higher than Canada, Australia, 
NZ, England, or Scandinavia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

> has great infrastructure,

there are few sidewalks.

I can't cycle to work without great risk to my life.

there are no commuter trains. We need a tranportation system 
than scales better than O(n). A car, while cheaper than a 
horse, doesn't scale any better.

If I want to go shopping, I have to get into a car to do it. 
With a train system, you do your shopping at the station and 
walk home with the evening dinner.

If you want to catch a train to WDC or NY, it's only twice a 
day and passes through at 2am or something like that. It 
takes about 50% longer than driving, rather than being 
quicker and it's as expensive as a plane flight.

> where you have free speech,

could someone become president of this country without being 
a loudly declared christian?

are you allowed to freely teach Darwinian evolution in 
schools?

The socialists at the turn of the 20th century were put in 
jail for sedition, breaking the back of the movement.

Similarly Margaret Sanger 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

who started Planned Parenthood was put on trial for 
distributing information on birth control.

also see below

> good schools,

When I came to NC (1995), NC was equal 2nd last in SATs. I 
see that it's improved. We're now 39th.

http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/sat-scores-by-state-2011

The best high school around here, Jordan, had SATs that were 
average for the nation.

http://www.dpsnc.net/news/news-releases/sat-scores-decrease-ethnicities-remain-at-or-above

shows that the 3 best schools in Durham are just above 
national average for 2008.

I know a geology teacher at a high school here. He has 3 
kids on average in his class who want to learn, the rest of 
the class are only interested in beating each other up.

> plenty of food

this is a big one. If it's important enough I'll take it up 
with you.

> and good healthcare.

US is 38th in life expectancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by_the_United_Nations_.282005.E2.80.932010.29

Cuba with a real healthcare system but 9 times lower 
GDP/person is ahead of the US in life expectancy.

(numbers from wikipedia for populations and GDP)



Infant mortality 34th, again behind Cuba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate



49% of pregnancies are unintended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_pregnancy

"The United States rate of unintended pregnancies is higher 
than the world average, and much higher than that in other 
industrialized nations."

Presumably a lack of education (eg abstinence) here.

Have you and your family tried out the great healthcare
available to the 48M uninsured here that you think other 
people should find acceptable?

> What more do you want?

How about a country where the food we eat is 
picked/harvested by people living under conditions that 
americans would live under?

> I suggest moving to a 3rd world country for a few years.

Putting the US, with the largest enconomy in the world up 
against 3rd world countries shows pretty low expectations 
for the quality of life here. When you buy a car do you 
compare it to a Trabant or a 3 wheeler from Sata? What do 
you compare your company to when you're looking to see how 
you're doing?

> Then come back and compare. We've got it good. Real good

Hooray, with the largest economy in the world, we're better 
than the 3rd world.

>> This is an assumption or a choice about how you live your 
>> life, not a given.
>
> I don't get this.  Are you saying that you don't want to 
> live in a place where products are continually improved 
> and less expensive?

absolutely. It's too expensive to live a place where 
_everything_ is cheap. People have to be valued.

>> Let's say I want a life where I can enjoy the world, be 
>> with my kids, get an education and contribute in some way 
>> to making the world a better place, I may not be 
>> interested in the relentless pursuit of higher 
>> profitability. I may instead be interested in better 
>> health care, schools where the teachers come from the top 
>> 1/3 of graduates rather than the bottom 1/3, stable 
>> employment and a society where I'm valued rather than 
>> seen as an expendable cog in some business's wheel, 
>> living in fear that if I loose my job, I will not have 
>> healthcare and will loose my home. I would be quite happy 
>> with higher prices.
>
> It sounds like utopia.

I'm glad you recognise it.

> Maybe you can find like-minded citizens and get something 
> started.

Do you want to live in such a place too?

> Something like a commune. Nobody is going is make it 
> happen for you

What do you know about my personal life that you can 
publically pronounce on this list for all to hear that I'm 
not doing it?

> - whining on this list certainly won't.

that's nasty. I tell you what I want from life and you tell 
me I'm whining without knowing anyting about what I'm doing 
to make it happen. Is this your idea of free speech?

Joe

-- 
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
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Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!