[TriLUG] Internet Neutrality

Fri Sep 8 19:37:51 EDT 2017

Perhaps we’re starting to illustrate the absurd?  We’re talking about getting around abuse (by the vendors) and censorship or restrictions on who we can get data from.  LTE, as I understand it, offers me really pretty rapid bit-rates  compared to CATV of even a few years ago, for 10s of gigabytes per month, and for under $100/month?   That seems like a silly amount of data to be complaining about data caps.  All that and it is getting better every year.   My personal buy for LTE data is 16GB/month for $200 or so but that’s with multiple devices and whatnot.  20 years ago ISDN gave us 128Kbits/second and it cost 10cents a minute?  (and we were glad to get it haha) Uphill.. both ways.  

I think the reason Verizon doesn’t seem to compete with the CATV vendors is because their offerings are a bit different, or you use a bit more data than I do.  Allegedly customers of these cellphone companies stream movies regularly and with no per-month data caps.  I don’t know what they do for throttling on the unlimited plans but it must permit streaming movies still, yes?  

I think if the CATV vendor said no Hulu, Netflix, Playstation VUE and whatnot that Verizon would find itself with an uptick in “unlimited data” sign-ups.   

I think this is competition.  I’m grateful that we have it here in the big city.   Personally I’m not so worried about the popular streaming vendors as much as I’m worried about blocking access to information that our citizens or one sub-group or another finds offensive.   LIke how to make home-remedies, or to hand-load ammo, or learning math the “old” way, or history of the French Revolution, or the US Civil War, or about the trading company run by the Duke of York, or something like that.  That wouldn’t even have to come from the Fed.  Just let a couple of crazy fascists get their hands on our CATV vendor?  Now I hope I’m being absurd but crazy things have happened.  

I’d prefer to look for competition and technology to fix this than to grant power over our data to some agency that we don’t appear to have a say in regulating.  

I like the prevalence of VPN connections into and out of the country.  Even though I’ve never used one, I’ve heard from “the kids” that this is something that is done and that it is possible makes me happy.  I could be truly paranoid and guess that the regulators know what “the kids” are doing with this, but I have more faith in how smart you and I are than in how smart the regulators are.  If the regulators were so smart, how come they get caught?  It’s not them being dumb that scares me though, it’s being dumb AND powerful.  

But what do I know?  I’m a software geek.  I could easy be snowed by a successful financier on a mission.  

    Tadd

> On Sep 8, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Wes Garrison <wes at xitechusa.com> wrote:
> 
> Fixed wireless and LTE are no substitute for a landline connection.
> 
> They could be someday, but now they are encumbered by data caps.  It's unreasonable for someone to pay hundreds of dollars a month for LTE data so that they can stream Netflix on their computers.
> 
> I know this is a First World problem, but that's because the Third World seems to have it solved.
> 
> Competition is key, and without it, there is no free market.
> 
> _________________________________
> Wesley S. Garrison
> Network Engineer
> Xitech Communications, Inc.
> phone:  (919) 260-0803
> fax:       (919) 932-5051
> __________________________________
> "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from email."
> 
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Tadd Torborg via TriLUG <trilug at trilug.org <mailto:trilug at trilug.org>> wrote:
> Truly the first problem is redundancy.
> I forget that some people don’t have it.  In my neighborhood I have 2 pipes that are landline, CATV and DSL.  I also have at least two discreet over-the-air services with Verizon and ATT-cellular, and then there’s via satellite.  I suspect we’ll see a 2nd via satellite availability soon.  So for my neighborhood the only problem with dynamically selecting providers is cost.   I’m actually already paying for Verizon cell-network AND Time-Warner/Spectrum land-line CATV already but I don’t generally have them both connected to the streaming-to-TV and desktop computers at the same time.   There are costs per bit differences between these two services though I don’t expect that will be true for much longer.
> 
> My point is that with multiple service providers, we can, in fact, implement interesting technological solutions for the problem.  All we need for laws and regulations already exist in the form of anti-trust law, I think.  If Verizon and Spectrum collaborated to keep us from something or another, it would be bad.  Can they?  Technologically I’m sure they can.  Legally?  I’m clueless.    I’m still worried about the all encompassing government, or more likely, the amateur fascists, blocking availability of something or another.
> 
> When is Gone With The Wind airing next?   Burn the books!  Tear down the statues!  Stop broadcasting that filth!    haha.  amazing what comes around and goes around.
> 
>     Tadd
> 
> Tadd / KA2DEW
> tadd at mac.com <mailto:tadd at mac.com>
> Raleigh NC  FM05pv
> 
> “Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html <http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html> <http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html <http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html>>
> Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a <http://torborg.com/a> <http://torborg.com/a <http://torborg.com/a>>
> 
> > On Sep 8, 2017, at 2:43 PM, Brian via TriLUG <trilug at trilug.org <mailto:trilug at trilug.org>> wrote:
> >
> > On 09/08/2017 02:19 PM, Tadd Torborg via TriLUG wrote:
> >> I think we engineering types need to come up with a protocol or
> >> mechanism that either
> >>
> >> 1. makes the net neutral
> >
> > I wish, but whoever controls the pipes controls the Internet.  Someone comes up with a protocol that bypasses non-neutral ISP behavior?  Just block that protocol at the nearest DMARC/whatever and call it a day.
> >
> >>
> >> or
> >>
> >> 2. exposes the lack of neutrality.
> >
> > The only thing that occurs to me, which would be immune from ISP meddling, would be keeping extensive client-side records of bandwidth per host.  That could expose patterns which would imply non-neutral ISP behavior; however, whether or not even gigabytes of that kind of evidence would lead to any sort of action against ISPs would remain to be seen.  Even then, without legislative and judicial support, such evidence wouldn't amount to a hill of beans for effecting any change. Internet access has almost reached necessity-of-living status; how many Americans would actually be willing to go without internet access for months or years in order to apply market pressure under the current monopoly structures?  Probably not enough to matter.
> >
> > -B
> >
> > --
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> --
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